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Advance timing rod

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by happychappy, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    Whats up guys I was wondering if anyone knows where I could source a timing advance rod for my 1980 xs650 in Austin TX. I bought and installed the "Ultimate Electronic Ignition with E-Advancer/XSCharge PMA Package" from mikes xs. It ran amazingly great for a few days then wouldn't start. I checked the pamco to see if it bumped out of time. When I opened it up I found the rod had cracked off under the nut. So if anyone knows where I could source one I would appreciate it. Pic link

    The bike

  2. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Whenever you install a new advancer rod, be sure to use a torque wrench. I think you got carried away and used too much torque, which broke the shaft. Its only a 6 mm thread, and you need to limit the torque to 7 ft/lbs or 84 in/lbs.
  3. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    That's possible I didn't use a torque wrench but I didn't get too carried away. I read on this group there have been a few reports of this problem. One member had it happen twice on back to back rods, 1 on each side.

    Maybe I can drill and thread it. Then use some threaded rod to hold the rotor on.
  4. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Pamcopete has an advance rod. It is made of a larger diameter aluminum rod. One came in the last E-advancer kit I bought.
    It can only be used with the Pamco ignition, it can't be used with points.
    I don't know if he sells it separately but you can check his web site.
    Other options are used from someone on here or a place like Ebay, or a salvage yard. Mike's XS sells a repop new one.
  5. weekendrider

    weekendrider Iron Horse cowboy Top Contributor

    S.W. MO
    Yes Mikes products are iffy and there have been others report the same problem.
    Some of the best breakfast burritos I ever ate were in Round Rock.
    happychappy likes this.
  6. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Are we sure about that M6 thread dimension? I happen to have an XS650 points cam in my computer desk drawer and the hole through it measures 8mm.
    And that shaft don't turn inside the camshaft, it's just a long stud? Thread the ends of an appropriate diameter long rod to make a replacement?
    And while I've given up on urging chopper builders to fer Chrissake put yer fenders back on, please note that the XS650 front fender is also a fork brace.
    There are several fork braces available, TKAT makes a nice one that'll remove a fenderless fork's flexy-flyer feel and installs in 5 minutes.
    happychappy likes this.
  7. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    Ha thanks I plan on putting the stock front fender back on. Also working on a rear fender mount or just mallet bagging a rock guard for the rear. Thanks.
  8. If you know someone with a lathe it would only take a few minutes to drill and tap the end of the shaft and install a stud.
  9. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    I have access to a drill press. Gona try to clean up the end and drill them tap it and put a piece of threaded machine rod. I think it will hold with some red locktight.
  10. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi happychappy,
    OK, I thought I knew most technical terms but you got me, WTF is "mallet bagging a rock guard"?
  11. jamesgs4

    jamesgs4 fuck this, let's ride!

    ive got a spare OEM one, 25 shipped.
  12. gggGary

    gggGary When a whole one is just too much. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    fred: go pound sand.

    Shaping metal by placing it on a sand or shot bag and striking it with a soft face hammer to create curved sections. A poor man's english wheel.
    That's my guess anyways. :rolleyes:

    Ding! Ding! Ding!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    happychappy likes this.
  13. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    It's a mallet and shot bag for rough shaping metal. Works for getting real close to a finished surface. In Round Rock TX there's a place called Tech Shop. They have a metal shop that I use from time to time. Pretty cool place.
  14. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    Thanks for the offer that's a good deal. Thankfully mikes xs is sending a replacement. I'll see how it goes.
  15. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    MIKESXS sent the replacement rod and it arrived yesterday. I put it on the bike and now get no spark. The setup is a pamco with e-advance. I have it wired from the pamco to the e-advance color for color green to green red to red black to black. From the e-advance I have the black going to the frame ground the red joins the switched on lead then joins the blue wire on the coil the green wire from pamco goes to the black wire on the coil. I tested voltage at the red and green wire at 12.6 volts when the switch is on. It looks like the pamco and the e-advance are sending 12.6 volts to the coil. I removed the right side rotor from the rod and free spun the magnet rotor to induce a spark and got nothing on either side. I have an inline spark tester strobe light tool. I test the coil from lead to lead I get 4.6 on the lowest setting on the meter. Lead to plug wire without the cap I get nothing on any setting in any combination. From plug to plug i get 20.2 on the 200k setting. This is a new coil that came with the kit from mikes xs.

    The bike was running fine before the rod broke. I'm wondering if there's a possibility that while I was trying to start the bike with the pamco rotor floating around on the rod may have caused a problem.

    (Edited after properly testing)
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  16. happychappy

    happychappy XS650 Member

    Also since I'm getting 12.6 volts at both the green wire and the red wire off the pamco to the coils wouldn't that prove the e-advance is getting power? I tested the red wire on the pamco for voltage it came back 11.7 volts the green wire fluctuates between .01 volts and .05 volts depending on the rotor. When the magnets are over the sensorit's. 05 when after the sensor it's. 01. Would that mean the signal is working? How much voltage is needed to send a fire signal?
  17. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Gary,
    as my late wife said about quite another matter "Just because I don't know the American slang term don't mean I'm unaware of the activity."
    And shaping sheet steel on a sandbag using a rawhide-faced hammer don't go ding-ding-ding, it goes thud-thud-thud.
    Or thud-thud-Aargh! if your thumb gets in between.
  18. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Power goes to the Pamco and the coil on the red wire. The power to the Pamco is just to power the circuits on the board. Power on the red at the coil goes through the coil and out the green wire to a main power transistor on the Pamco circuit board.
    A 5 volt signal is sent to the Hall Effect transistor on the sensor plate. As the magnets pass the HE transistor, they turn it on or off. When "on" this 5 volt signal is passed through the HE transistor to the Main Power transistor, This turns the power transistor on, which connects the green wire to ground. Allowing current to flow through the coil. When the next magnet passes the HE, it turns off, turning the power transistor off, stopping the current through the coil. This causes the coil to spark.
    This is the basic operation of a Pamco, there are more circuits on the board to set timing and for overload protection.
    I can't really say just what is wrong but I'm sure Pamcopete will be along and give you more help.
  19. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I recommend you read, and follow exactly, the trouble shooting procedure from Pamcopete's web site:
    http://www.yamahaxs650.com/Installtion of E-Advancer.htm

    Pete also recommends you wire the Pamco ignition to its own battery supply, separate from the PMA/regulator, for the initial starting and running.
  20. pamcopete

    pamcopete Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple

    My standard recommendation is as RG said. Install a separate fully charged battery to power the PAMCO regardless of whether or not you have a battery or capacitor with the PMA setup.

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