Advice wanted...welders?

MaxPete

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Good morning all!

As the Great Clean-up of 2017 continues in the Disaster Central Workshop, I have concluded that it is time for me to acquire my one last major tool purchase - a welder.

I have a few projects I want to do around the house and I'd really like to build an engine stand for my XS bikes plus, I'd like to weld on a set of tabs to allow me to use 1976 side covers on the 1981 Special frame for my cafe build. The other thing that is prompting this is that very slick repair done in another thread on removing a seized bleeder screw from a caliper. Finally, welding is the last great frontier in my inventory of shop skills and I have always wanted to learn to do it.

I've done a fair bit of research on choosing a welder and here are my conclusions:
  1. MIG is the way to go. Stick welding can be good - IF one has experience & skills - but I don't, and as for TIG - it is too costly and the availability of good MIG welders at a reasonable cost (i.e. a sum which stands a chance of approval by the Senior Management Budget Committee :doh:) makes the choice clear.
  2. There are a multitude of really inexpensive MIG welders around at the $150-350 level, but they are all 110v units and even if they would do my first few jobs, I will almost certainly want to upgrade to a more capable 220v unit fairly soon.
  3. The other key variable is gas - or no gas. <....and no smart remarks from the Prairies please ;)>. Again, while it does appear that modern flux-core MIG welding wire can work well, some jobs simply go better with gas and so, a gas-capable machine is worthwhile. Also, the more capable machines have better (more flexible) controls which means that even flux-core jobs work out better.
  4. The choice seems to be boiling down to one of the following:
  • the Millermatic 211 - dual 110/220v machine for somewhere around $1000-1200 CDN
  • the Lincoln EasyMIG 180 - a straight 220v machine for about $700 CDN (on sale)
The Miller 211 dual input voltage capability which sounds very appealing, but I am told that it won't work on a normal 15 amp household circuit (requires a HD 20 amp circuit) so I'd wind up running on 220v most of the time anyway. I also like the very capable controls on the Miller - but it clearly does come at a significantly higher cost. I don't really mind spending the money - if it's really worth it.

The Lincoln 180 seems to me to be more of an industrial machine with somewhat simpler controls (NOTE: this may not be a fair comment). Also, it requires a 220v supply, which I have in the DCW due to good planning 20 years ago when we built the house. Finally, it seems to go on sale from time to time at a much lower price than the Miller, at least in Canada.

Sooo....I now throw the door open to any and all for their opinions.....

Is anything I wrote above inaccurate and have I missed any significant factors in making the decision? Specifically, I would like to hear about:
- anyone's experience running the Miller on 110v using a normal 15 amp household circuit and,
- do you find the controls on the Lincoln to be OK for a rank beginner?

Cheers,

Pete
 
Hi Pete,
looks like you've already decided about what type of welding machine will suit you.
Same decision I'd make if I was just starting out.
This was years ago advice from a professional welder:- "Millers is better than Lincolns"
The Miller's extra cost is a one-time thing and better than decades of regret that you chose to cheap out.
As you have 220V in the DCW why fret about the Miller's need for a 20Amp 110V supply?
You will also need to get:-
A LOUD smoke alarm. A good fire extinguisher. A self-darkening welding helmet. Leather work gloves. And perhaps a leather apron.
 
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Pete, I have had a Miller 180 MIG welder for about 15 years now. It has done absolutely every thing I have needed it to do for all my welding including building a motorcycle trailer and bike lift table. This is 2" square tubing and a 5/8" nut I welded to the 1/4" end cap done with my 180, as you can see there is enough heat.

P2150742_zps8dfd7806.jpg



I also have used for the construction of the stands for my milling machine and lathe. That being said the new Miller machines are different than my previous generation 180 and if I was to buy a new machine now I think I would go with the 211 depending on how much price difference there is from the new 190. I bought a new TIG welder last year and decided to go with an Everlast as the reviews were good and the price difference between it and Miller was huge. It has been working perfectly even though I need a lot more practice to get pretty welds from it. You might want to compare their MIG 200 to the Miller. From what I've heard even Miler and Lincoln are sourcing their power IGBT welding components from China so the made in North America advantage does not exist any more. Miller and Lincoln have both gone this way to be price competitive with the off shore welders. I think the 120 Volt welder are OK for really small stuff but for all around use you really need a 240Volt machine with gas, not flux core.

http://www.everlastwelders.ca/migwelders/power-i-mig-200.php

You can get more specs and info from the American
Everlast site.

Looks like you can get a new Miller 211 for about $1500 and the Everlast is $950. There are a lot more machines to choose from than when I bought mine.

John
 
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Pete I was a certified welder as as younger man and have admittedly been out of the game for a while now, but in the choice between Miller and Lincoln, Miller hands down. Lincoln was always kind of the entry level welder for small machines, sort of like Black and Decker tools. It'll work but you'll be happier with the Miller. Also in your debate between flux or gas. Gas is the way to go, you get cleaner welds with less smoke in your garage.
Also I suggest getting a bunch of scrap metal and practice welding things together before you weld on your bike.
Good luck.
Bob
 
Hi Pete,
after reading johnnyc14's post perhaps you should start prowling the pawnshops for a Miller that's old enough to be made in North America?
 
Screw the brand crap. You pretty much get what you pay for in welding equipment. Any welder costing a grand or more will be fine. I bought a Lincoln 200 years ago for 1350 or so and it's always been perfect. No job too big. I welded for Cat for years and we used Millers. Just as good, not any better. Look for a sale on either and run with it. Gas is better, but getting expensive. Gasless works OK, but not my preference. The wire costs more.
 
I accept the advice given above without question and it all rings true from my experience. I am an amateur at welding and have used gasless mig on and off for several years now. It works ok, good but not fantastic. In the workshop you will find the gas system superior for appearance and it will not take much practice to get very good results without the need to scrape off flux and spatter. Three key parts to the mig are smooth DC supply, smooth wire feeder and good adjustment for the current output. All these things will be had at the pricing range suggested above. I originally bought a £100 45/90A AC gasless mig like the one sold by Harbor Freight and many other DIY outlets. I could never get a decent weld until I upgraded it to DC and rewound the transformer for better current control from 45A to 90A. In hindsight I should never have touched this cheapy gasless mig and just should have paid up front for a real gas mig.

Learning lesson - "I went too cheap and had a lot of fun upgrading, but my pigs ear is still not a silk purse!!!

Note: I buy 1.5mm sheet metal pre-cut into 25mm X 150mm strips and use these for practice. I generally use this metal thickness either as sheet, round or square for my projects.
 
:laughing::bike: CHECK THIS OUT !!!!!!!!! I was just bouncing around ebay and found this Hobart Handler MIG for $45.27 free shipping, a $500 welder. Will this happen? I really doubt it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/122399954057?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Damn, I bought one, should have bought more. I bought 50 high performance ACCEL coils one time for $2 apiece, that never happened.

Crossing my fingers, Scott

That would be a smoking deal if it's not a scam! The vendor has 0 feedback so I'm betting on scam but I hope you get it.
 
Pete. Just spring for the Miller no matter what the cost. It will outlive you and all your projects combined. I`ve had a Millermattic 220 for the last 40 years and It still makes me look like I know what I`m doing. Very USER FRIENDLY.
 
Tanks, We have a fabricator in town that sells welding supplies. I think I paid a one time deposit on the 16"x6-1/2" of $60 USD and exchange it for a full one at $9-$12.

Scott
 
With the small amount of welding you seem to be planning, are you sure you need a $1000+ machine? All I've ever had for many, many years is a little buzz box stick welder, and I bought it used for like $70. It's done pretty much all I've asked of it. Granted, I can't weld really thin stuff like sheet metal but I've never really needed to do that. So, is stick welding harder to do? I can't really say because it's all I've ever done. But, you're not "on the clock" here. If your weld isn't right or good enough, just grind it away and weld it again. Remember the old welder's saying - "My welding skills have greatly improved my grinding skills", lol.

But, no matter what you get, do practice. They say "practice makes perfect" but even if you don't get the perfect welds, you will at least get better. I suggest one of your first little projects be a small all metal welding table. Attach the ground cable to one of the table legs then all you have to do is clamp the piece you're welding to the table top. This makes welding small items so much easier .....

TableGround.jpg


WeldingTable.jpg


I designed my little table with slots in the top and then made up various fixtures to slide around in them. This is a big help for clamping things down. And besides being very useful, all this stuff is welding practice.

Someone recently posted about buying one of those little engine stands for $50. It's the same one shown in the old 650 shop manuals. He was quite happy with the purchase. That just had me shaking my head. I've probably built near half a dozen of those things over the past few years. At $50 a pop, that means my little welder has paid for itself more than 4 times over, lol.
 
I suggest a gas setup. I've brazed or welded with baling wire, fenders, floor pans, tailgates. It has welded 5/16" wall pipe for fences, soldered copper tubing.
Built weenie roasters and yard art for the garden. Doesn't require electricity but gas is getting high. You can weld, cut or heat and shape with oxy/acetylene.
And it is something of a lost art these days.
 
My thoughts on this resonate with 5Twins and Weekendrider.

A basic, inexpensive setup can do you well for the essential jobs we encounter. I bought a nice Craftsman Oxy-acetylene unit in the 70's and use it routinely. Like 5Twins says, "if your weld isn't right or good enough, just grind it away and weld it again." You can cut and heat and weld with a oxy-acetylene. (sorry to be repetitive)
 
If you're welding the same gauge all of the time with a MIG, all you do is crack open the valve, flip the switch and weld. I've cut lots of steel with a $10, 3" dia. air cutoff tool.

Scott
 
gas mig, buy used on CL with a bottle, test it at the sellers. they all work fine. 110 is fine too, grab scrap and weld weld weld. More heat, less wire speed, is your mantra!
Paid 500 for a well used 110 snap-on, 30 years ago. it's still going strong, could stand a paint job. Buy a modern inverter based MIG for the portability. I also now have a oxy acetylene and am on my 4th TIG headed for #5 but that mig is what gets used.
Hint relax save a CL search MIG and wait for the right deal to show up.
Yes a quality auto shade helmet, as important as the welder for good welds.

Secret for every MIG user that will REALLY pay off. Was decades before I found these, what a time/pain saver. $4 stinking bux.
24A430_AW01
 
IMG_0246.JPG Holy cow guys!! What flood of great advice! Thank you sooooo much!

I just returned from a little vay-cay to Phoenix where I had a great meet-up with our very own Daniel Black and his beautiful Stella. See the photo above - which was supposed to be below - dammit). Daniel (on my LEFT) and I and my cousin had a fantastic BBQ lunch at the famous Little Miss BBQ - wow - what a feast! I also have to tell you all that this chap has a gift for getting the best out of the wiring on the 650. He has worked out a way to use LED turn signals (in stock XS650 mounting stalks) that also function as running lights AND 4-way flashers - amazing.

...sorry, got side-tracked by the great conversation and the pulled pork and brisket....now, back to welders. I will be compiling all of the great advice that has come in and start watching Kijiji for a deal that works for me.

Many thanks and if anyone has additional thoughts on welders, please keep it coming.

Pete
 
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