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An LED Ignition Timing Light experiment

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by TwoManyXS1Bs, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    ????????? "simple tons wire Schu" ???????

    Haha, you had me with that one. Had to read it aloud several times, then caught it.

    Well, hold on to yer panties. Something is brewing out there.

    Now, your turn.
    Read aloud several times:

    HOOF HARTED?
    ICE MELTED!
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  2. angus67

    angus67 Welder's penetrate deeper!!

    Didnt have to. Potty humor is my forte'
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  3. this is true, but if its firing in the same place, whether exhaust or compression I'm sure it would still work. i use my inductive timing light on the plug wire all the time. i dunno, I'm not the most electronic savvy guy in the world, but i like experimenting haha
     
  4. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    I updated post #11 with a revised schematic, and added a parts list.
    The schematic remains functionaly unchanged.
    Just clarifying some values and making it easier to find parts.

    Changes in this revision:

    Add reference designators, used in the parts list.

    Change diode D2 from 1N4004 to 1N4007, cheaper and easier to find.

    Show the voltage rating for the 4.7uF electrolytic cap as 50v. A 25v cap can be used here.

    Change the values of the 300pF 300v capacitor to a more easily found 330pF 500v ceramic disc cap.
    This capacitor must have a voltage rating of at least 300v.
    The value can be anything from 300pF (min) to 10nF (0.01uF) max.
    Smaller value preferred. And, a smaller value may get you a smaller physical size.

    Show the pinout positions of the transistors' Emitter, Base, Collector pins.

    Parts list uses the reference designators in the schematic.
     
  5. JRay77

    JRay77 XS650 Addict

    Freaking genius. This is what I'm talkin' bout! I thought I was King Ding a Ling for fixing the transistor in my Pamco. Haha! You're launching space shuttles. Rock On 2M!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  6. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Holy cow 2M - all I can say is...holy cow. :bow2: I've been reading car and motorcycle forums (fora?) for a long time and without a doubt, you are one of the most creative people I've ever encountered.

    Have you ever come out with a kit for the timing light system? How about a rear-side headlight bucket digital display of the degrees of timing advance....no, maybe not useful and too distracting for the younger folks or those who have large shoe collections or have their own businesses.

    I can solder and assemble things - my major problem is time. My job is busy, requires a lot of travel and so assembling a bunch of parts is a challenge.

    Lemme know my friend - I am a fan and I'm in.

    kablatta..kablatta..kablatta..kablatta....
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and JRay77 like this.
  7. JRay77

    JRay77 XS650 Addict

    I dig what you're saying. Hahaha! Pretty sure ol' boy tugs it with a thumb up his arse. Wait, I need to be politically correct, "Metrosexual"
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  8. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Thanx, JRay77. Rockin' anda rollin'.

    Haha, thanx Pete.
    I swear to cow, isn't that Hindu?

    Pete, kits and such are beyond my means. I'm more of a tinkerer, and publish plans like this. It's mostly a hobbyist kinda thing. I'd rather someone else do that. Besides, I don't think there's a significant market.

    Now, a spark advance display HAS been on my mind for a long time, with the ability to adjust it on the fly. It's not a new idea, just haven't seen it on our bikes...
     
    JRay77 likes this.
  9. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    An update to this thread.

    Member Dogbunny has some electronics knowledge, and wanted to tackle a TCI version of this thing. The TCI ignition presents a different kind of signal at the grounding side of the ignition coil. Instead of the typical Kettering ringing found on points ignition, the TCI ignition shows a very rapid field collapse, demonstrating a rapid, sharp, singular high-voltage spike at the moment of spark. This trace was captured on DogBunny's bike. The vertical voltage spike is actually much higher. I inadvertently forgot to reduce the timescale during capture. But, it still shows the intense singular spike.
    DB-TCI-trace.jpg

    This different signal would require changes to the original design...
     
  10. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    So, I cooked up three variations of a modified TCI Timing Light.

    Three Schematics for three versions of a TCI timing light.

    1. The "Self-powered" version is similar to the original points type LED timing light.
    It has these wire-outs:
    - The TCI signal line (for signal and power)
    - The LED drive line
    - Ground
    The LED plate provides ground for the LEDs
    TCI- Tri 40ma LED - SelfPwr- V1.jpg

    2. The "12v-powered" version is simpler, since it doesn't have to store power from the TCI signal line. Best implementation is inside the TCI box.
    It has these wire-outs:
    - (+12v)
    - The TCI signal line
    - The LED drive line (the only line to exit the box)
    - Ground
    The LED plate provides ground for the LEDs
    TCI- Tri 40ma LED - 12vPwr - V1.jpg

    3. The "Brush-powered" version is simplest, uses +12v from alternator brush.
    It has these wire-outs:
    - The TCI signal line
    - The LED drive line
    - Ground
    The LED plate provides power for the LEDs, using the +12v brush.
    TCI- Tri 40ma LED - BrushPwr - V2.jpg
     
    Team Junk likes this.
  11. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    So, with DogBunny's permission, we'll show his implementation of his TCI version LED Ignition Timing Light.

    He opted for the third circuit, powering the LEDs from the supplied +12v at the alternator's brush block. He doesn't use the electric starter, it's kick-only, which means that the starter safety system isn't used. That frees up the alternator's yellow wire, which he repurposed to drive the LEDs. He only wanted to use two LEDs, so he modified his circuit, and added a DPDT switch to isolate the gadget when not in use.
    TCI-DB-1.jpg

    He put the entire circuit and switch onto a small breadboard.
    TCI-DB-2.jpg

    His simple wiring has the orange wires tapping into the orange TCI grounding wire, and the yellow wire connects to the repurposed yellow wire coming from the alternator (for the non-used starter safety relay).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  12. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    He designed a 2-LED plate, using commercial LED holders.
    TCI-DB-3.jpg
    TCI-DB-4.jpg

    Notice that the backside of the LEDs are blacked-out, to eliminate backside flashing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  13. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    DogBunny then mounted the "gadget" to the coil mount plate, toggle switch facing down.
    TCI-DB-5.jpg

    This is now a "stealth" installation.
    Toggle switch barely visible just below the tank.
    TCI-DB-6.jpg
     
    Mailman and MaxPete like this.
  14. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    His 2-LED plate is mounted to the stator housing, LEDs aimed at the 'idle'and 'advance' zones. Power to the LEDs comes from the powered inner brush (80-up alternators). The repurposed yellow wire triggers the LEDs.
    TCI-DB-7.jpg

    He also installed a clear "Artek" stator cover. From this thread:

    http://www.xs650.com/threads/clear-aluminum-stator-covers.44619/

    His LED Ignition Timing Light project works!
    TCI-DB-8.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    robinc, Mailman and MaxPete like this.
  15. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    You guys are amazing.
     
    robinc likes this.
  16. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    I know right? :thumbsup:
     
    robinc likes this.
  17. weekendrider

    weekendrider Iron Horse cowboy Top Contributor

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    Will there be an adaption for the pamco? Would/could the power source be the battery as opposed to the yellow wire from the stator?
     
  18. DoubleE

    DoubleE XS650 Enthusiast

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    Looks great. Any chance of a video of the LEDs in action?
     
  19. weekendrider

    weekendrider Iron Horse cowboy Top Contributor

    5,668
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  20. DoubleE

    DoubleE XS650 Enthusiast

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    Doh, sorry, I got all caught up in the schematics and DogBunny's adaption.
     

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