Another voltage regulator thread full of questions.

Well yes, I guess I do, lol. These digital cameras are the coolest things. Take all the pics you want basically for free. Then I have a neat little free photo editing program that lets me easily crop and re-size them. Then another little freebie that lets me watermark them. I like to have pics of all this stuff not only for my benefit but also for sharing. It's so much easier to explain something if you've got pics to go along with it. As luck would have it, I got my 1st "better" camera right around the time I started fixing up my 1st 650, back in 2005. So, I've got a good selection of pics pertaining to it from the whole time I've had it.
 
Thanks 5T, so with the XS500 rectifiers, somewhat bulletproof, in other words buying a used one should come with the expectation of useable?
Is the reliable nature of these do to them being enclosed?
For the harness , I assume I use my coupler with the modded connectors, Or is the 500 coupler a match to our harness set up?
Lastly, that handy dandy connector crimper, do you have one you recommend?

Thank you
 
The couple XS500 rectifiers I've acquired have all been good so, yes, I'd say you can have a reasonable expectation of them being so. If you look at many stock "open air" 650 rectifiers, you will find lots that are all corroded. I think a lot of that may have to do with their mounting location, right under the battery. I got mine from XS500 parts bikes and another for like $7 off eBay just because it was so cheap. You'll need to change both the plug and the wire crimps. The plugs are male and female type, one plugs into the other. The 650 harness has a female plug on it and so does the stock 500 rectifier, so you can't plug the two together.

A few years ago, I invested in a couple terminal kits from this place .....

http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Kits

One of the kits I got included the crimper. I got a kit for bullet connectors and one for the multi-terminal block connectors. Since then, I've supplemented the kits by buying more crimps and connector blocks off eBay mostly. Included in a kit, my crimper was discounted and cost me about $25. There are lots on eBay now for around $15 to $20 but I'm glad I paid a little more, I think the quality is better. All this stuff cost me a fair chunk of change but I'm glad I got it. I could build whole wiring harnesses from scratch now if I wanted to but so far I've just done repairs and little projects like these regs and recs, and voltmeters. I also have a box full of old scrap wiring harnesses that I scrounge wire, connectors, and crimps from. This crimp tool does do a really nice job but still, factory crimps usually look better. They must do them with a machine.

99Hh5B6.jpg


This has two Vintage Connection crimps (male bullets) and the brown wire w/ the female bullet was clipped from a scrap wiring harness .....

cpzEWos.jpg
 
If the voltage going into the regulator is within .3v of the batt, then odds are it's the regulator.
I think it's the VR-115 you're looking for. Not sure though...
Jim, back to my lack of understanding of electrical.
If I get greater than within.3 difference of the battery voltage, the VR puts out more in an effort to recharge the battery, so here are my questions.
If I am charging too high as a result of the VR putting out to much, then why the failed slapped test? Wouldnt more power on the green wire to the brushes result in more magnet?
Which is why I ask this. how can I have have too much but less than 6V at the positive brush?
Lastly for now, how does the VR know the difference between the battery and the brown wire, it is only connected to one of those items?

As always, thank you.
 
Wouldnt more power on the green wire to the brushes result in more magnet?
Yes, what you're describing isn't really possible. Failing the slap test means you have little or no magnetism. Little or no magnetism means little or no charging. You can't really have both.
Which is why I ask this. how can I have have too much but less than 6V at the positive brush?
Well, as I said before, the regulator operates by quickly vibrating a set of contacts. These contacts send batt. voltage to the rotor when closed and a much reduced voltage (couple of volts... maybe) through a resistor when open. That's the power out to the rotor. What your meter is probably showing you is the average of those two voltages. Have you tried adjusting the regulator?
 
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Lastly for now, how does the VR know the difference between the battery and the brown wire, it is only connected to one of those items?
The brown wire is battery voltage.
 
The brown wire is battery voltage.
Yes, so how would the VR be able to gauge difference between the battery voltage (brown wire) in comparison to the expected +/- 12V. If the brown wire is low, or correct, how does the VR know its low, or correct for the needed comparison?
With brown wire voltage measured before entering the VR, and at the green after leaving the VR on green wire in the electrical socket, measurements are both slightly above 12V, so why then at the end of the green wire which I believe is the positive brush, is it reduced to less than 6V.
You stated this is the "average" so does this mean while I am measurimg, the voltage is quickly fluctuating between very low and above 12?
I did try and adjust the VR, to reduce the output, not increase due to my prior readings at the battery which were;

Battery readings when running
14V @ 1500 RPM
14.5V @ 2000 RPM
15.2V @ 3000 RPM
 
....how does the VR know its low, or correct for the needed comparison?
FM my friend.... f*ckin' magic. ;) No seriously... you don't need to know that. For all we care it could be a super miniaturized minion with an abacus. Or a super miniaturized IBM supercomputer... how it does it is unimportant, just take a leap of faith and accept that it does. I will give you a little teaser though... think of it this way, in an oil pressure system, we want to hold 50psi (for example). That's done by using a spring to hold a little ball closed until the pressure is high enough to overcome the spring tension and unseat the ball to allow the excess oil (pressure) to bleed off. There's your key... spring tension used to regulate. Just like 50psi is potential force, 12volts of energy is also a potential force. In the regulator is a spring doing the same job as the oil pressure spring. That spring holds the contacts closed so the full force of that 12v is sent to the rotor... giving us maximum energy out to the battery. That battery power goes to the coil in the regulator and the coil pulls the contacts off the direct 12v line and onto the resistor line... which gives the rotor a reduced voltage. At the same time that reduced power to the rotor happens, it allows an increased power to the coil inside the regulator... which again pulls the 12v contacts closed... again allowing full power to the rotor. This cycle repeats itself hundreds of times per second. The higher the spring tension, the more the regulator is biased toward the full 12v side.... just like higher tension against the ball allows higher oil pressure. Boiled to basics.. its spring tension acting against a force to balance it out.

Or you could just say f*ck it... it's magic.... it works and that's all I need to know. ;)
 
Well, finally received and mounted my VR115, mounted to a piece of aluminium I felt the need to polish.
Plenty of rubber dampeners as well.
I tied into my old VR harness so no need to change to a different plug.
I mounted in a spot so my original airbox could go back in place if I ever went back to those.
I had an old side cover I opened up for viewing during the process, so I could make sure I wasnt rubbing on the side cover once mounted.
 

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Pretty fancy, lol. That's what I need to do with mine, turn it at a slight angle like that.
 
Yes, i also needed to file away some of the mount / frame of the VR, to keep it right of the airbox.
Now with it hooked up, I tried the slap test, I would call my results the "Gentle Touch Test", the feeler did move but no slapping, and i had to go with a really thin feeler.
Oh well at least I got more than 6 at brush....baby-steps
 
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Are your slip rings clean? I polish mine bright and shiny with chrome cleaner.
 
Are your slip rings clean? I polish mine bright and shiny with chrome cleaner.
5T does this mean you remove the side case, or do you do this with the case still on?
Can this be done thru the inspection hole?

Jet, thanks for the vids, will watch later today.
 
It's easiest if you remove the cover and the alternator to expose the whole rotor. Below you can see I have the alternator sitting off to the side on blocks of wood. The outer slip ring have been cleaned, inner not done yet .....

GHoeRsM.jpg


..... and another shot .....

id1CxSs.jpg


If the slip rings get too dirty, the brushes can start losing contact with them. That could explain your weak slap test results. But none of this seems to explain your over charging issue, that's an odd one. Usually these things under charge or don't charge at all, lol. I've fixed low charging or no charging issues on a couple of bikes over the years just by cleaning the slip rings. I don't know if it's going to help in your case, but it certainly won't hurt to have nice, clean slip rings. Once cleaned, I wipe them down with electrical contact cleaner to remove any polish residue.
 
It's easiest if you remove the cover and the alternator to expose the whole rotor. Below you can see I have the alternator sitting off to the side on blocks of wood. The outer slip ring have been cleaned, inner not done yet .....

GHoeRsM.jpg


..... and another shot .....

id1CxSs.jpg


If the slip rings get too dirty, the brushes can start losing contact with them. That could explain your weak slap test results. But none of this seems to explain your over charging issue, that's an odd one. Usually these things under charge or don't charge at all, lol. I've fixed low charging or no charging issues on a couple of bikes over the years just by cleaning the slip rings. I don't know if it's going to help in your case, but it certainly won't hurt to have nice, clean slip rings. Once cleaned, I wipe them down with electrical contact cleaner to remove any polish residue.

Thanks 5T, dont know if I am still overcharging now, as I havent started and ran with the new VR115 installed, will do after I do my best to clean the rings.
 
Thanks 5T, dont know if I am still overcharging now, as I havent started and ran with the new VR115 installed, will do after I do my best to clean the rings.

Well, I was able to clean the outer ring while all parts were attached by working through the inspection windows, this did increase power at the positive brush to low 11's, which is an improvement.
Unfortunately, still overcharging.
13.8ish at high RPM idle without lights.
13.5ish at high idle RPM with lights.
14 at over 2k.
14.4 at 3k to 4k, so I guess that is the workings of the new VR? as it wont go over 14.4, vs the old one would touch 15 depending on RPM.
Headlight does not vary on RPM, always stays constant, is this due to me always "charging too much?

5T, Next part to swap, rectifier?
 
Even at such low RPM?
Just afraid of hurting something.
Yes, even at 4k revs. The electronic regulator is smarter than the old mechanical one. As long as it stays below 14.5-ish, it's fine. Rev it to 5-6K if you want the peace of mind of knowing for sure.
 
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