Any guesses what is stuck in my crank?

fullercameron

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Posted a little bit about this earlier in another thread, but though it was worth making one specific to this problem.

Essentially, I went to kick the bike over the other day and it stopped about 3/4 of the way down with the kicker. Really locked in place and the kicker wouldn't go down any farther. Rocked the engine a bit in gear and it would turn and lock up at the same point.

Thought it might be a problem with the kicker mechanism so i drained the oil and pulled the side cover off to check things over. Everything seemed fine. I decided to rotate the engine w/ a socket to see if it was turning freely, and if so where it was stopping. Peeked in the spark plug holes to make sure there wasn't a valve doing something terrible and it appeared ok. Turned freely but would only rotate between around 10* of either side of BDC.

Pulled the sump off and found a whole mess of gnarly shavings (see picture).
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I have been riding this bike for the past couple of years almost daily with the exception of Jan and Feb. Oil has been changed every 1000 miles, regularly check timing, cam chain tension, valves, etc. Engine has about 10,000 since complete rebuild. Filters at the last oil change were essentially free of gunk - no chunks, and only some grey metallic paste on the drain plug magnets.

I was able to look up through the sump and could see that there was a piece of what looked like aluminum between the 2 flywheels where the RS connecting rod lives. This piece of metal is what was stopping the engine from turning.

I had ridden the bike the night before to the bank and it was running fine. I noticed a slight noise in the top-end, but thought it sounded like it was time to check the valves again. I was about to change the oil and figured I'd look at it on the weekend. Had plenty of oil, just a little noisy. The next morning - STUCK.

Here are a couple of pics of the pice in the motor. Sorry they are cell phone pics. I pulled down the top-end this afternoon thinking I would find the cam chain guide chewed up and mangled. Nothing missing or self-destructed in the top. Can't see any place that this hunk of metal might come from.
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I am getting ready to tear the engine down the rest of the way and thought I would put it out there and see if anyone has a guess as to what the hell this is and where it came from.

I can't see anything that might end up in here with the crankshaft. Sump filter, bolt, etc. are all still in place and the shreds are not magnetic. The piece appears to be aluminum.
 
a "slight noise" in the top end?, after a hard pull?, or possibly low octane fuel knock?
Has the bike been sitting awhile (corrosion/rust)? Something happened to the piston
(read: IT BROKE!!:)) that created an imbalance, and instigated the noise.

Your lower rod bearing might be salvageable:shrug:
 
Looks like a crank pin. Pics are kinda fuzzy. I don't know . Maybe someone else can verify that. They are known to wonder. What year is it. If it is early, that's what it is.
 
Not your alloy front cam chain tensioner let go & been made into a nice little alloy ball..?
 
I was betting on cam chain tensioner...

I just helped a friend pull his top end... first we pulled the sump filter and found literally a 1/4 of a piston skirt in the oil pan... He was on a 3 day trip riding 75-80mph with friends on modern bikes... He ran out of oil and the motor seized...

Only pulled 1 and a 3/4 pistons from the bike.. hahah... the rest of the piston melted...

Since you were good on oil and all im guessing its cam chain guide... doesnt rule out a crank pin or something tho i guess...
 
I'll hopefully get back to tearing down tomorrow. So far I got the top apart and it wasn't the cam chain guide. I pulled the pistons off the rods last night and didn't see any large chunks of the skirts missing, but perhaps I just wasn't thinking it was a part of the piston and somehow missed it, but this is a fairly large and I can't believe I wouldn't notice that big of a hunk missing even with my excitement to get in there and get a good look at the hunk of metal.

I don't think it's a crank pin because the metal seems soft, and all shavings are definitely not magnetic. I'll let you know when I figure out more.
 
When you pulled the pistons, how did the wrist pins feel?
Can you post pics of the pistons and the piece in question?

BTW how do the cylinders/combustion chambers look?
 
Took a quick look and the pistons are intact. Did a bit more looking and it apppears that the piece came ffrom the fllywheel itself.

Thhe piece is on the RS between the primary side wheel and the other RS flywheel. I don't see it pictured on any of my parts diagrams, but it looks like there are 2a holes in the primary flywheel that have pins or plugs that are pressed into the holes. It apppears that the piece is one of these plugs that worked it's way out.

Does anyone have pictures or diagrams that show all of the parts for an early model crank?
The diagrams I have don't show any detail on that side of the crank.
 
Those cranks don't have any aluminum parts. However, our early engines had the early style lower camchain slippers, backed-up by a block of aluminum that, if chewed up properly, could look like your pieces. I understand that some folks used to drill-out the retaining rivets just to remove camchains. Don't know how they put them back together...
 
Thhe piece is on the RS between the primary side wheel and the other RS flywheel. I don't see it pictured on any of my parts diagrams, but it looks like there are 2a holes in the primary flywheel that have pins or plugs that are pressed into the holes. It apppears that the piece is one of these plugs that worked it's way out.

I reread this after seeing uncle bryans comment...
The holes you are referring to shouldn't have anything in them at all...
 
I am wondering if anyone has pictures of the primary side flywheel from the inside face (the side that faces the connecting rod). I've looked at all of the pics I could find of disassembled crankshafts and just haven't seen this part from that particular side.

The piece that seems to have gotten stuck looks like some sort of blanking plug that is pressed into the inside face of the flywheel. Shotgunjoe - there are 2 holes that are open, I think that these are what you are referring to, they are on either side of the pin that holds the connecting rod, but from what I can see with a flashlight (with the bottom still in one piece) is that on the inside face of the geared flywheel there are two additional holes that have something in them. I was thinking that perhaps these have something to do with how the gear is mounted to the flywheel. The hunk appears to be one of these that worked it's way into the rod's domain.

Does anyone know if the gear is pressed onto the flywheel or if it is one piece?
 
Seems like lots of pics, just none of the inside of that flywheel.

I'm going to work on tearing down the rest of the way and will post any info that might solve the mystery.

In the meantime, if anyone does have an image of the inside face of the geared RS flywheel, I'd love to see it. all of the images I have seen are of the outboard face.
 
Oh yeah, TwoManyXS1B's, the lower cam chain guide also seems to be in good shape. When the engine was rebuilt a few years ago, the cam chain was broken and replaced. I don't really like the idea of purposely altering that piece although I have seen it done.
 
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