Appalachain Chopper Build Thread

Almost forgot. On your carbs, If those are the PWK knockoffs Mike's sells they often ain't worth much as carbs but do make good bookends. If the books are small, how about paperweights.
Stock carbs are good but a better option are the carbs from a Kawasaki EX500 NInja. There is a thread on them. I am running a set on my 75. They work well, easy to tune. Very smooth power delivery across the rpm range.
Leo
 
Cool. I will check out the threads on the carbs. if these don't run well i've got a mini bike i can throw one of them on. they're the older style mikes xs kit. hopefully they'll work at least okay. Everything that's on it now was installed by the PO. He also mangled the harness. Thanks for the extra diagram and extensive information. i've updated the picture i posted and removed the power outlet, adding a starter button, and adding wires from the front brake switch. waiting on connectors and parts to arrive. maybe i can get it done sometime this week.
 
So i got to hear by baby fire up today. i made a very simple wiring harness and saw some spark at the plugs. after charging the battery, getting kickback twice and screwing up my ankle, and making a deal with the devil, she fired up, and was not very happy about it. the carbs were hung wide open and my killswitch didn't work. it started walking backwards and i was freaking out trying to find my key. I got it turned off and i'm letting the battery charge again. I'm very excited to have heard it run for the first time! i still have a long way to go on the harness but this was just the boost i needed. Now i know that my coil and tci are functioning properly and my dreams of riding it this summer are refreshed. if i can get it to calm down and idle smooth i may upload a video. as of right now it looks like this...
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i got impatient and wanted to make sure i was going in the right direction. Thanks for the help so far and stay tuned for more presidential engineering!
 
Bought my first xs650 a few days ago and so far it's been a hateful bitch. It's been sitting for a few years and it doesn't want to wake up. The previous owner cafe-d it and i'm not feeling it at all. I'm going to attempt to get everything all happy happy and get the wheels spinning, collect some parts, and start down the long road of making a chopper. The bike isn't in "survivor" condition. it needs a lot of reworking and dressing up, so i don't feel bad about hacking off the ass. I'm starting this thread as a personal journal to post where i am and where i've been.
My immediate plans are:
- get brakes functioning front and rear
- get a new gas tank and clean the carbs
- flip bars/replace bars
- check in on the clutch
- ditch the shit mufflers
- figure out how to charge the weird ass gel battery.
- ride it.

My long-term plans are (in no particular order):
- PMA kit / capacitor
- Ardcore Ardtail Kit
- maybe put speed-holes in the wheels. maybe change them for spokes.
- new rear fender
- some sort of sissy bar.
- definitely new cooler bars.

That being said, here's a pic of the bike as I received it.

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This is my starting point. It will be fun to see where i wind up with this project.

Hi electra,
I just found this string so I'm late to the post, going over your "to do" list.
FIRST fix the brakes! You betcha. Then check the tires' ages.
Old tires may look eff nigh perfect but they will have gone all hard and gripless.
The mufflers are OK, it's the pipes that are too short.
Extend the pipes so the back of the muffler reaches just short of the rear axle.
By all means swap out those dubious carbs & pleated tapered air filter pods,
just because the pods say "XS" on the back don't mean they won't screw up the airflow.
PMA/Cap? Don't drink the koolade! That system is rubbish and your bike will work
(if it works at all) despite it, not because of it. Even a Morris Magneto & dead loss lights is better.
And if you prefer looks over comfort, by all means go hardtail, (I've given up counseling otherwise)
Note that any style front wheel after '74 (pre-'77 wheels use your existing disks) and any style
drum brake rear wheel will drop straight into your bike.
 
Thank you for the advice. my goals have changed slightly. i'm looking more into a brat style where i keep the rear suspension but get more of a chopper seating position. This is mainly an around the town project bike, but my town is in the middle of mountain roads :D. i've dropped a desire for a pma kit now that i know the tci works. i keep hearing about how awful these carbs are, what are my options for aftermarket? also the brakes are functional but will have a complete flush, pad change, and thorough test before it gets on the road. i've lost brakes on the road before and i'd rather not do it again.

my short term goals now are lock down the wiring, finish the auxiliary wiring for lights, etc, and tuning if possible with these carbs. if i can get them close i'll be happy for a little while.

i also have some metal to make a new underseat electrical box. so i've gained some new things to do and dropped a few things to do.
thanks for checking in!
 

I couldn't help but be a media whore and make a video. Sorry my phone mic isn't great. I'd get a new phone but i'd rather have motorcycle parts :D

now i just have to figure out a couple of bugs and do up the rest of the wires. Then I can start on the mechanical issues i should've started on a month ago...
 
I couldn't help but be a media whore and make a video. Sorry my phone mic isn't great. I'd get a new phone but i'd rather have motorcycle parts :D
now i just have to figure out a couple of bugs and do up the rest of the wires. Then I can start on the mechanical issues i should've started on a month ago...

Hi electra,
no problem, I don't think my computer's sound got plugged in again after we recently moved house.
Something that will improve your front brake feel is to swap out the stock master cylinder for one with perhaps half the piston area.
(It's the same M/C as the rest of the world's XS650s use to work TWO calipers. The search function has the details.)
Also swap the stock fabric brake line for a stainless one while you are at it.
 
Hi electra,
no problem, I don't think my computer's sound got plugged in again after we recently moved house.
Something that will improve your front brake feel is to swap out the stock master cylinder for one with perhaps half the piston area.
(It's the same M/C as the rest of the world's XS650s use to work TWO calipers. The search function has the details.)
Also swap the stock fabric brake line for a stainless one while you are at it.
i'm not sure what you're getting at with the master cylinder. i have two front disks, shouldn't i keep a larger master? I do understand the positives of stainless brake line though.

electra,
Cool project! And welcome to the nut house!
If you're going the 'brat' route, maybe one of these is what you're looking for:
http://www.visualimpact2.com/FRAME-BRAT-KIT.html
http://www.monstercraftsman.com/xs650-brat-kit/
Keep the posts and pictures coming (we're nosey buggers)!

I will post as much as i can. I'm mainly trying to make an online journal for the project so i can look back on my progress and share it with the forum. Progress has been slow as i'm either at work or school or it's been snowing or raining constantly. hopefully summer will prove a more productive time for making a bike. as far as the brat kits, I've already been looking at these two companies and i've settled on the monstercraftsman kit. something about it just flows better and looks very nice.

Gravel Crew and An Bu are other great Japanese bike shops that have done great XS650 drop seat conversions. Check them out for inspiration.
thanks, i'll check them out!
 
so far it's been a productive weekend, i cut out some parts and finally welded up my electrics box. when complete, this should house the battery, fuse block, starter button, killswitch, key, and maybe some spare fuses if i can find something to hold them. It will also have the ignition box mounted to the bottom. All of this will go under the seat.

i didn't take pics of the entire process, but i caught the high points. All of this was done with an angle grinder, a tig welder, and a diy sheet metal brake i made a while back out of bed frame rails.

I also have to boast about the harbor freight vulcan welding helmet. I had a 3m speedglas helmet and couldn't do anything under 50 amps without getting flashed constantly. I was able to use the vulcan helmet between 20-30 amps for a few hours straight and never got flashed once. It's heavy, but it's a great deal for anyone who likes going to the HF!

After I got all the parts traced and cut and smoothed the edges out, i did some rough bending with my knee and the diy brake. When everything got close i did some tacks.

VnOL8ovl.jpg


After that i welded up the rest. I was between 24-27 amps for those curious and for future reference for myself.
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cut a couple more pieces and boxed it all in. Of course, the very last weld i make turns out to be the best looking one. Whatever, i'll file it down an bit and paint it and all will be well.

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I have to drill a few holes and make some mounting points. Overall, i'm happy with it. Again, my motto these days "still a lot left to do."
 
did a rough test fit today and drilled some holes. nothing is mounted, but everything looks like it will fit with a bit of room. Once this is on the bike it should make it easier to run appropriate length wires and keep everything nice and tidy. i have some foam padding to put around the battery, and i need to make some kind of mount for the solenoid. then i have to figure out how to mount it under the seat, but it's getting very close. unfortunately the next couple of weeks will be work/school heavy so it might be a minute before this gets done. Let this be a lesson to everyone, stay out of school and ride motorcycles!

k9sJ1O8l.jpg
 
progress progress progress, caught a quick nap after work and went back... to work.

welded a tab onto the box and the PO had drilled some holes in the frame for some reason, so i took advantage.
Here's the box mounted for all those curious
zbhntahl.jpg

I used the two pegs in back after cutting them down and used the holes to run two bolts (and washers and locknuts) that i miraculously had a matching set of. All those trips to lowes finally paid off! i had to cut two notches out of the rubber piece that holds the tank in the rear, other than that it fit perfectly.

What i didn't get pictures of are the notches i cut out in the forward corners to get wires in and out of. i bypassed the light switch and horn and took the big ugly wart off the left handlebar. i will be looking for a hi/low selector switch/location for the future as well as a convenient horn button placement.

I got wires ran for the tail/brake/tag lights and rearranged my original layout. i also managed to stuff the tci box in there as well, so yay me!

and now the finished product...

batYE6Ll.jpg


okay, so it sticks out a little further than i thought it would but i'm okay with it for now.

so far i've only managed to fire it up once and it's having fuel issues. in the previous video i used two long pieces of fuel line and filled them up to get it started and running. now that i'm using the tank petcocks and in line fuel filters it's having issues getting to the fuel. Also, if i leave the petcocks on "prime" the left one leaks like crazy. This is very frustrating after having it run so nicely the other day using primitive methods.

i'm currently waiting on the battery to charge so i can mess with it a bit more. hopefully i can get the fuel issue solved without buying a new tank (which i'm planning in doing anyway but will require more modifications.
 
okay, backlog of work to document here. I've been busy with finals but i did manage to sneak a few minutes in to do some work on the bike. I'm pleased as punch with what I accomplished, so here's a run down.

Removed the carbs and gave them a thorough cleaning. They weren't that dirty, but i got in every nook i could. Before I reassembled them, I adjusted the floats. Then I tested them by blowing into the fuel line and slowly turning them upside down until the flow cut off. After I got them back on the bike the left carb will still flood and leak if i don't shut off the petcock but only if it let it sit for a few minutes. Neither are pissing all over the engine like crazy, so I will count that as a win. especially for the cheap ass pwk carbs that they are. I've decided once I get the bike healthy I will get a vm34 kit from hoos racing or somewhere. whoever has the best deal really.

Next up, the tank. So I was very excited to get the tank on after getting it running just using a small amount of fuel line filled with gas. I get everything plumbed up with the vacuum petcocks and dumped in some gas. I started it up and went to the gas station and back and the bike was running like a pig. I decided to look into rebuilding the petcocks but quickly changed my mind. A rebuild kit it cheap enough, but since I didn't plan on keeping the tank I figured I'd go ahead and order the tank I'd been pining over. (the xs750 tank will be for sale as soon as i can find a box to ship it in.)

Enter stage left - Lowbrow Wassell Tank.
Very solid, very thick, very cheap. I ordered the tank, a cap, 2 petcocks, set of tophat bungs, set of leather washers, and a new throttle so i can ditch the old cluster. They were kind enough to include a bag of peanuts.

oQeTmyPl.jpg


I couldn't get this on there quick enough! It did take me a while though. I took off my top motor mount and threw it in the box of leftover shit. Luckily enough HHB was having a birthday sale so I got a new (non-windowed) upper motor mount at a discount! Go me! Unfortunately I didn't get very many pictures of it as it will be a small visual component.

When I finally got a weekend for the project i jumped on it. Here's a pic of the test fit/placement.
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Just barely fit in every way possible. Just barely above the engine, just barely on the straight parts of the backbone, just barely wide enough. I'm not sure if it's luck or what, but from here on out I'm calling it "precision."

The process from here was pretty straight forward but challenging. I centered up a leather washer where it needed to be on the mounting tab and used a centerpunch. I bought a centerpunch specifically for this project and i'm glad i did. I put the tank in the final position i wanted it, drilled a pilot hole in the tab and then through to the backbone. Once this was done I removed the tank and used a stepper bit (also purchased for this project) and drilled it to accommodate the bolt+paint+breathing room. Then i used some motor oil and the stepper bit to drill into the backbone. Point of no return, there's now a giant hole in my backbone.
Once this was done I assembled the bung, bolt, and leather washers onto the tank and fit it into the hole i just made.

bZqn6Jjl.jpg


I had to do a little extra work with a file to get it to fit, but when it fit, it was snug.
Since that was holding the tank firmly in place i could move on to the rear mount. Repeated the same process. Punch, pilot, step, file, test fit.

wybGqekl.jpg


Here's the final test fit before welding.
And the holes.

JdzEI8Ol.jpg


This looks incredibly sketchy, but after the bungs are welded in it should be stronger than before. Also pictured: HHB upper motor mount. At this point i used a paint stripper thingy from advance auto and prepped the area to be welded. I also used a set of files to deburr and clean up the holes.

Unfortunately I didn't get a pic of the coolest part because my welding room is tiny and having a bike in there had me in compromising positions. I also had to do some shaping to the top of the bungs to match the mounting tabs. Here's a pic of the tank loosely bolted on.

RheKE2Fl.jpg


Another thing to note is that i found two random (properly sized) bolts from other projects and used them inserted to keep the threads from warping. I placed two tacks, front and back, check straightness in all directions, two more, left and right, check straightness. weld 1/4 jump to opposite side and weld another 1/4, jump to opposite side again and weld 1/4, jump to final side and weld final 1/4. repeat for other bung. Left it to cool for a bit, rolled it out, taped it up and used a self etching primer and high heat gloss black to repaint the backbone. I also used the scrap bolts for this process to keep paint out.
ZrtOqP6l.jpg


HHB upper motor mount clearance

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I did get a jam nut to bolt the top of the mount on, however it was still too wide. I imagine if I moved the tank back a bit it might've fit better, but i just took a flap disk to it and took off little by little. Then i used some loctite and cranked that bitch down. Keep in mind the wiring will be cleaned up eventually.

Pt. 2 will be posted in a minute.
 
Fast forward a few days and i'm getting antsy, i have my tank on, filled up and ready to go. I charge my battery for about an hour and go start it. All of the previous pigishness in the engine is gone. I'm assuming the vacuum petcocks were causing some sort of issue. Switching to straight gravity feed fixed all of that. I also had to block off my vacuum lines, but that took about 2 seconds. Rode to the gas station and back and man what a ride! ran it through all the gears a few times. I think I put on about 10 miles all together. Got back home and did a little fiddling. got antsy and decided to push my luck.

bad idea.

I made it pretty far around my backroads loop. I was having an issue with sticking idle (carb boots are leaking). Then it started sputtering really bad. I reach up and flip my headlight off and suddenly the sputtering is gone!

yeah, that's an oh shit moment.

Finally the bike died all together under throttle load. I pulled over and let it sit for a minute trying to think of what i could do. Eventually i manage to kick start it and i take off like a bat out of hell hoping it will charge some at higher rpms (i usually like to cruise at lower rpms). made it a couple more miles and it dies again. Kick started it again and made it about a half mile when it died going downhill in gear under throttle. There was no kicking after that. It was done. I did get a pic before girlfriend showed up with the truck though

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What an awkward sexy machine that is!
So yeah, I'm disappointed in my machine at the moment. More electrical gremlins to sort out. The rotor is testing good, the brushes are a good length. I'm thinking the charging system may not have enough juice to charge the lithium ion battery that's in it. For some reason it seems like I read that they require higher charging volts before they'll actually take in charge. I'm not sure. The battery is 2 years old and was flat from the owner. I'll do more diagnostics and report back.

The real part 2. starts here.

I tried to keep oil on my tank so it wouldn't rust. One week later it's rusting. So I decide to jump in to another area i'm not comfortable with. Paint!

I dread painting almost as much as I dread electrical work. It's never turned out good when I paint. I have zero patience for painting. However, I did it anyway because I'll be damned if I let anyone else work on this thing.

Overall it turned out better than expected.

I converted my shed into a paint booth and tied it up with some mig wire.

CqtZ0Lgl.jpg


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I used a self etching primer until i couldn't see metal anymore, then I used duplicolor white pearl. It looks good in daylight but in pictures it looks like grey primer :mad:
whatever.

Anyway, I put on some clear coat and tried to wet sand it and smooth it out, then finished with two more coats of clear. Let it dry, put it on the bike, then rolled it into the sun for a day to let it cure.
4xzN0Kzl.jpg

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Cameo by big brother.

Again, the damn paint looks like grey primer in the photo. maybe because i'm using a cheap phone. I don't know. But it's a nice white with a little pearl and some flake in it. Maybe if I get brave one day I'll put some designs on it.

I also got a set of lightly used ya mama's from a user on the forums this will clear up the footpeg region and get the exhaust off my toes.
oaZ6UC4l.jpg


So this is where it stands today. I need to go through and test the charging system which will be a pita without a tach. I'm hoping it's a simple fix.
I need to get this thing into barhopper shape! :bike:
 
Did a little more work today, changed out the frayed clutch cable, changed shocks from 12.5" to 12" because they were free. Installed shiny new exhaust gaskets, fixed my bent shift peg, and checked my oil filter just to make sure it was in there. I also have a leak somewhere on the underside of the engine, but couldn't find anything loose. oh well.

I tested my battery and charging system as well. Brushes are 14mm long, rotor had around 5ohms resistance, stator was getting 11.1. ac/v at idle, i did find a loose wire going to the nuetral safety nipple(?) on top of the engine case. charge got up to the low 13s while idling but still doesn't raise when i rev the engine higher. it also continually drains with the light on at idle which is normal i guess? i also noticed the battery jumps down to 4-5v when i start the bike. even though the battery has held charge all week, i think it might be done for.

the plan now it to ditch the old electrical box and build a new one that will fit a full size lead acid battery.
 
Makin' some good progress there.....:) I like the tank.
 
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