1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Hey Facebook people... We've created a group for XS650.com members to connect. Check it out!
    Dismiss Notice

Battery decision.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by joebgd, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    Battery Tender Engine Start Battery: Lithium Motorcycle Battery with Smart Battery Management System (BMS) - 12V 5.0 AH 300 CCA Lightweight Starting Batteries for Motorcycles and ATVs - BTL14A300CW 135$
    Or
    Yuasa Yb14LA2. 47$ Acid 17$
    Both from amazon.
    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Boog

    Boog Traveling Stroyteller

    I am concerned about the claim of 300CCA. I bet in reality that is 300LCA with the L being Lithium. Lithium batteries for motorcycles are notoriously crap below 40*F. Now if I understand the post correctly, this is simply an extra bit of kit for jump starting a dead battery. In that case you should be fine as long as the lithium stay at it intended working temperatures. Besides cold, you don't want to keep it in the side bags if they are in direct sunlight in the summer. Lithium changes its properties around 156*F and no longer carry a charge. Depending on the other materials, this may come on at hotter temps, but I make sure after loosing a few batteries, to keep my lithium batteries in the happy zone.
     
  3. buzzword

    buzzword XS650 Addict

    cold starting with a lithium battery is dead simple - just turn the bike on and let it sit for 10-15 seconds to put a load on the battery, then it’ll crank right over at full amps.
     
    lakeview and Boog like this.
  4. Boog

    Boog Traveling Stroyteller

    @buzzword I tried that with a 710LCA battery on my Rocket III to no avail. I let it set for several minutes and the lowest temperature I could get it to start was 29*F. I ride down to 0*F as long as the bike starts. I would have that battery on the proper tender for lithium but no dice.
    Granted, the XS650 does not require near the amount of power a Rocket does.
     
    buzzword likes this.
  5. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    Boog likes this.
  6. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    I ride in some pretty cold temps myself, not really bellow like 32, or rarely. I'm not too concerned about that. I've been riding in less and less cold weather, age maybe.
    Do you think the lithium battery will be dealing with temps to high for it? Sitting under that seat next to a 200+° mottor in traffic?
     
    Boog likes this.
  7. Boog

    Boog Traveling Stroyteller

    The high temperatures can be a factor. Years ago when Saddam was still a threat, the Army shipped thousands of Lithium batteries to Kuwait awaiting use when the war began. The fall heat was down too just 105 to 115*F during the day. The batteries inside CONEX boxes were ruined due to inside temperatures reaching over 165*F.
    I am testing a new piece of gear in the desert heat very soon. The outside temperature of the case as measured by my IR thermometer reaches 150*F here in Virginia under direct sunlight. I have not measured the interior, but think my devices may fail due to battery melt as they are only rated to 150*F.
    I have known of a few lithium batteries in cars and bikes fail under Arizona and Las Vegas heat. That was a few years ago so maybe newer batteries are better now.
     
    grizld1 and joebgd like this.
  8. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
  9. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I'm with Boog on this one and while I don't claim to know-all on this subject, I can report that several of my motorcycling pals have tried lithium batteries on bikes (both modern and classic bikes) with pretty poor results. I am sure there are lots of people for whom Li cells have worked great - but there are lots of others for whom they have not.

    BTW - I fly electric RC aircraft so I have a good deal of experience with lithium batteries and know the ins-and-outs of them pretty thoroughly. Lithium cells do not like being too cold or too hot and they do not like erratic charging or being drawn down to too low an SoC (state of charge).

    Basically, lithium cells are like Goldilocks - they like it juuuusssttt right. Modern cells are more stable, but they remain a bit of a knife-edge technology - and they is why they are so expensive and it is also why production electric cars such as the Chevrolet Volt have battery heating and cooling systems. In a modern electric car - the battery and its attendant hardware and software is worth more than all of the other parts in the car combined (and that also is why electric cars don't hold their value all that well - an old electric car with an old battery will cost many thousands to refurbish).

    Anyhow, it seems to me that the potential weight saving of lithium cells is simply not worth the expense and hassle. Saving 5-10 lbs in a 450 lb motorcycle means nothing and if you can tell the difference in handling and braking, I'd be surprised and would ask why you aren't riding for a factory Grand Prix team.

    Just leave the fuel tank a gallon down every time you gas-up or don't eat lunch a couple of times and you will save the same amount of weight. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
    Boog likes this.
  10. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Joe,
    what concerns us northern climate riders is how well a battery will survive 6 months of winter storage.
    Even when taken into the house and connected to a smart-charger they mostly don't.
    My solo ride answer was to buy a new el-cheapo lead/acid battery each spring and toss it in the fall.
    Mind you, my sidecar rig's car battery moves indoors each fall, connects to a smart-charger and fires up the bike in the spring
    and it's seven years old. Must be a size thing.
    .
     
    Boog, MaxPete and joebgd like this.
  11. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    I guess you can use a car size battery if you have somewhere to put it,.like a side car.
     
    Boog and MaxPete like this.
  12. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    My bikes have used the same conventional lead-acid batteries now for five years (in fact, the battery in the ST1300 is older - but I bought it five years ago).

    I just leave them in the bikes and have them on smart maintainers and they never miss a beat.
     
    Boog and Paul Sutton like this.
  13. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Sprained Ankle Top Contributor

    I have a friend who builds/reconditions Lithium bicycle batteries. He said the batteries should not be stored longterm fully charged. He said the preferred storage voltage was ????? - I cannot remember. Perhaps that is a cause for failure over Winter. Also read an article where they said that during charging the Lithium migrates into the electrodes. At temperatures close to and below freezing this migration process is slowed down resulting in the growth of Lithium metallic crystals (Not DiLithium Crystals MaxPete) on the outside of the electrodes which have the potential to puncture the membrane and short the electrodes causing fire. Its all Witchcraft so stick with Lead.
     
    Boog and MaxPete like this.
  14. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    I am partial to lead acid, I just wish they made one with a little more power. I'm imaging the lion with more power.
    The yausa I had was good. Any recommendations on a good quality strong reliable led acid? If I go lead acid It's going to be the yuasa yb14l-a2 unless I can find something better.
     
    Boog likes this.
  15. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Pete,
    that'll work at the winter temperatures you pampered Southrons get.
    Surviving a real winter is another story.
     
    lakeview, Boog and Paul Sutton like this.
  16. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

    392
    130
    43
    NY
    What brand battery are you using?
     
  17. JRay77

    JRay77 XS650 Addict

    i have bought Antigravity batteries in the past for $100. Special charger/tender another $40 or so. Shunt style reg/rec for overcharging while running for another $50. I haven't had one battery last more than two years. Like running a capacitor only system. Im guessing vibration is killing mine. I notice Antigravity batteries come with a bunch of foam with self adhesion backing. By the time I wrap a litium battery with foam to prevent vibration damage, defeats the purpose of a small effient battery installation. My opinion, not worth the trouble unless maybe you're using the stock battery box and can shove a bunch of foam around it. Then figure another $100 or so for the charger and reg/rec.
     
    Paul Sutton and Boog like this.
  18. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    No particular brand Joe. I think one of them is a Yuasa and the others are whatever was on sale at the time.
     
    Boog likes this.
  19. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Sprained Ankle Top Contributor

    I use the Yuasa lead batteries and they spend all their non-riding time in the garage on a trickle charger. The trickle charger is on a timer and runs 4 hours per day.They have never let me done. My batteries do not see lower than -2 Celsius in Winter normally - a gentle life.
     
    Boog likes this.
  20. Boog

    Boog Traveling Stroyteller

    Just curious, does Cardiff have hard winters?
     

Share This Page