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Battery decision.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by joebgd, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Sprained Ankle Top Contributor

    Like I said, "a gentle life". Cardiff is mild with temperatures seldom below Zero Celsius, but the cold and damp of Winter is hard on old bikes and polished Al casings soon form white powder coatings. In very cold climates a trickle charger running 24/7 may be required. Does MaxPete keep his bikes in an ambient temperature garage or is the garage heated? Do others in super cold climates experience poor life for their lead cell batteries, both with or without a trickle charger/tender? Is keeping the charge at 12.8 - 13.4 voltages the only way to suppress sulfation?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020 at 4:18 PM
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  2. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    I want to get a Yuasa, do you get them from amazon. I might go check pep boys and AutoZone to see if they have a high quality lead acid conventional. I will most likely get yuasa lead acid conventional and the acid for it from amazon. I want to make a move on this today.
     
    Boog likes this.
  3. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Junkie XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I have several Wal mart bike batterys that have held up well.
     
  4. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    Done, I ordered the yausa and acid from amazon.
    Also ordered a set of brushes that come from Ricks Motorsport, which seems to have some quality electric system parts.
     
    Boog likes this.
  5. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    Is there anything I should know about starting this battery and acid? The acid is separate, I'll add acid, I have a basic 6v 12v charger I think it puts out about edit- 11.5v.
    I actually have two of those chargers, one is really old. I'll check v output and if they differ. I should have battery and acid by tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020 at 2:26 PM
  6. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    One of my chargers is 6amp and one is 10. They put out between 11-11.5v.
    I'm going w the 6 amp unless I get a trickle charger.
     
  7. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi joe,
    us cheapskates trickle-charge by connecting a 12V bulb in series with the battery.
     
    gggGary, Paul Sutton and joebgd like this.
  8. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    I like it, can you explain? I'm thinking positive charger terminal(red) on the pos,(black), self-help I didn't see 12vbulb, got it, pigtail, neg charger clamp on neg of pigtail, from the pigtail I'll have a jumper wire spliced in with a clamp or alligator clip on the other end to battery.
    How many amps would that put out? How do I measure how many amps are being put out? The only reason I know my chargers is because they are labeled.

    I have a standard generic little multi meeter, I use mostly on the bike, and I have a Craftsman meeter with A clamp I use that master for AC work or continuity.
    Edit- I figured out if I have the charger hooked up and put the clamp around the pos charger lead it will tell me how many amps the battery is drawing. An amp rating is other wise taken in the pos lead of a broken lead.

    Anyhow if I get a charger which it looks like I'm going to, should I get like a .75amp or 1amp or 2 amp smart charger maintainer? The instructions with the yuasa says charger at max of 2amps. Searching on this site I read a good deal cycle charge is .6-.8 amps.

    Ah I'm over thinking it. I'm going to look for a reasonable prices smart charger of 1.5-2 amps. Amazon has a couple but I don't wanna wait if I can't find the right one I will.

    Edit - as my battery gets closer to full it pulls less amps off the 6or 10 amp charger. They have amp meeters and you can see as the battery is at an 11-12v it's pulling less than 3 amps. Anyhow I'm going to get a 2amp float smart charger. So if I'm understanding correct a 14amp battery will take 28hrs at 2 amps. I guess that's up to the float charger because they are made to turn off when battery is full so I'll look for one with an indication light when it's full.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 10:09 AM
    Boog likes this.
  9. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    Got a 1.2amp Black and Decker automatic charger/maintainer. It was one I was looking at to order they had in stock at pepboys. I have high expectations for this new battery. I haven't been using the e start at all w the pos generic battery I have in there. It might have been better had I done this research and started it right but it was a cheap quick purchase to get moving.
    Okay enough rant, at 1.2amps how long can I expect it to be full. The charger light goes solid green and shuts off so I can't over due it.
     
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  10. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    I’m a little late to this conversation but I thought I’d just throw this in , in case someone might find it useful.
    I live in such a hot climate and the inside of my garage runs about 20 degrees hotter than outside, that my batteries, no matter how nice and well made only last a couple years. I have been buying batteries on EBay from
    Caltric, they deliver fast and hold up as well as any I’ve bought before, including Yuasa AGM. I always keep them on a Battery Tender when parked. And just a word about cheapo tenders, I bought a really inexpensive one from Walmart once and while I had it hooked up, I walked out into my garage one night and I could literally hear my battery boiling, I touched it and it was hot. I threw that charger right in the trash and bought another Battery Tender.
    F3BDDCEA-B70C-4A7F-96C1-2139B7F4AA65.png
     
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  11. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I use AGM batteries in all my bikes now too. I always used to use and like plain wet batteries but their prices have gone up so much recently that you can get an AGM for pretty much the same money now. What I liked about the old style wet batteries was that you could tell when they were getting old, they got weaker. The AGMs don't do this, they work like new right up to the minute they die, lol. I've had a couple fail on me while I was out riding. They started the bike for that ride just fine but when coming to a stop and letting the revs fall to idle, the bikes stalled and the battery was dead. I was able to jump the bikes and nurse them home by keeping the revs up. I have since bought and carry motorcycle jumper cables with me, lol.
     
  12. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    That's why I stick w lead acid, oposed to agm. W conventional lead acid you know when it's on it's way out and they last longer in my experience. I'd be open to lithium once the temp issues get sorted out.
     
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  13. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    Does this amazon review make sense? I think this is what I'm looking for just not what this fella was looking for. I want the battery to charge then when it gets low top off. I'll probably just plug it in manually in the winter if needed. I ride enough most of the year.

    The following is an Amazon review for a charger maintainer
    "First , I'am an electronic design engineer and have dealt with most types of batteries in my design projects. I also use and buy charging equipment fairly regularly. I have this 2013 ford Taurus which I recently found out has an above normal parasitic battery draw which is intermittent, but will bring a fully charged battery down to 12.2 volts in 2 days and discharge below starting voltage in 5 days of sitting. I always fix my own electrical problems, but the difficulty of tracking this down versus just plugging in a standy charger , forced my to decide on the charger option. So I get this B&D BM3B and it seems like it should work. But in my testing, I found that the charger would repeatedly charge to a voltage of 14.9 volts , then cycle down to 13.8. I reasoned that this was becatuse the phantom load of my car was discharging the battery enough to send the B&D into the absorption stage. Since I did not want the battery to be cycled , I decided to use a constant float charger for the car. Then I thought I would use it to maintain a pair of golf cart batteries over the winter. To test I put this charger on and monitor the current and voltage. Again after the the charger charged up to 14.9 volts , the current decreased until the voltage dropped to 13.8. I expected the charger to stay at 13.8 float voltage until the battery self discharge ( in a month or so ) dropped the voltage, but no , in a short period of time it just repeated the full charge cycle even though it was not needed. I'am shure that over the long run this behavior would be detrimental to the batteries. This charger would be ok for occasional use, but not to maintain batteries over an extended period."
     
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  14. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I never leave any of my batteries on float chargers for extended periods of time, a day or three a couple times a winter keeps my batteries happy. That said the Venture I just got has an AGM that had spent the winter on a "trickle" charger and seems to be just fine. But it's hard to trust a battery when you don't know the history.
     
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  15. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I never leave any of my batteries hooked up to the charger constantly either. I charge them once or twice a winter over night of for a few hours (until the charger light turns green). These AGM batteries seem to retain their charge better and longer than the old wet batteries did.

    That B-D charger doesn't sound very "smart", lol. It sounds more like it's simply programed to turn itself on and off based on a time schedule. It doesn't seem like it does so based on the amount of charge in the battery.
     
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  16. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    I.am.having good results w the battery, the charging system idk now. When it's cool just started it tops out at 14.6v when I get back from a ride it's 14.2ish and longer to get there. One of my brushes is brand new oem and one is barely on the limit, really short. I have new brushes from Ricks Motorsport electric..I'll check everything again and keep an eye on it.
    Might be ready for the homemade reg rec,.
    Once all that is done it's time for the front cam chain guide. Ugh not looking forward to that.
    Edit- Everything seems okay, it gets up over 4.2 just takes longer when it's warm. I hope the new brushes help. What a pleasure tho w a good battery. E start works and just runs better. Between the carb work n battery she is running great.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 6:30 PM
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  17. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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    When it's good and warm it gets up to 14.2-3 seems a little slow getting there. I'd like it to be at 14.5 right at 3k rpm.I
    When I get the other full length brush I'll check it again.
    At idle it's 12.3ish, she seems to idle allot better closer to 1,400. I think I have the mix screws a fuz rich I'll go in 1/4 on each and check that.
    What should the v be at idle?
     
  18. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    It can be quite low because of the draw from all the lights. I only see mid 11's sometimes. On one of my 650s, the charge rate does drop off some after the bike has been ridden a few miles and the battery gets recharged. The other doesn't seem to change much, don't know why. This one that doesn't change is a late model with all factory components (combined reg/rec) and the brushes were recently replaced by the P.O. The one where the charge rate drops is an older model with the earlier charging system and has the upgraded automotive regulator and a more modern rectifier from the electronics world. The brushes aren't new but are barely worn, still almost full "new" length. These are the original brushes and that's why I prefer them over aftermarket, they wear very well (slowly). I think they're made better.

    I don't know if the reduced charge rate is a function of the automotive regulator or not, but I do like the idea. I don't see the point of feeding more voltage than needed into the battery. One thing I have noticed on both bikes is that the charge rate is a few tenths of a volt higher in cold weather. Not sure what causes that. Maybe the battery is drawn down more from electric starting in cold weather? Or maybe the components just function better and put out more "juice" when colder?
     
  19. joebgd

    joebgd XS650 Addict

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