Battery is being overcharged..

BartBuddy28

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Hello folks, thanks to a fellow member of this site i was able to install and wire a mixesxs PMA kit, and Pamco advance setup on my 81 xs....after installing, i checked my battery to see how my charging system was working now...at idle, (1200-1400 just a guess), my battery was at 14.9 volts, when rpm's were increased to around 4k-5k, the battery voltage went up to just over 15volts.....i am a car mechanic not a bike mechanic, and i know a battery is supposed to charge at 14.3 when idling..my question is, how much trouble am i going to be in riding my bike at this stage, and what can i do to correct this. Additionally i noticed that my headlight no longer works...i read a thread about putting in a momentary switch from my battery to the "yellow wire" from the original harness that connect to the factory stator case...will this work, or should i just give up on riding altogether lol.....thanks in advance!!
 
Unplug the regulator and check the voltage on idle and revved. Plug it back in and see if it changes, if it does you'll know the culprit.
 
I don't know. I see this all the time, but it doesn't change. There are so many PMA installations that result in a high voltage, but the owners just keep on trucking, like there's nothing wrong. The only PMA that I am personally familiar with is the PMA on my Honda CB450. It was designed by Honda engineers to produce just the right amount of power to power all the normal electrics on the bike, including the ignition. I think a lot of the aftermarket PMA's for the XS650 are overpowered. People just want more power. Maybe enough to weld with on the side of the road. Well, more is not always better. Couple this with the somewhat questionable quality of some of these PMA conversions and you have a recipe for disaster. But, the disaster is insidious, because the frying of components does not happen right away. It can take some time for a 16 Volt supply to actually do some damage. In the meantime, the bike runs just fine. Then, on a dark and lonely road at night, something finally quits. Maybe the headlight just burns out. but, as often as not, the ignition system finally fries and you are dead on the road, but no big deal. you will just replace the errant PMA with another of the same, and ride some more. Sometime you will seek remedy from the manufacturer of the ignition under warranty. Usually, that manufacturer will honor the warranty, even though they know you have really screwed up. Can't go on forever.
 
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Well i thank you for your input pamcopete...and now im starting to rethink my whole conversion now........starting to look like im 500 bucks in the hole, and down a bike...bummer
 
I too wonder why people keep buying these crap PMAs. BartBuddy28....................the high voltage has burnt out your headlight, and may soon burn out the Pamco ignition, unless you stop using the PMA.
You're an auto mechanic. Have you noticed that the charging system, on most cars and trucks, is very reliable, and rarely ever burn out headlights due to high voltage.
The stock XS650 charging system is much the same as cars and trucks use. The stock alternator only produces the power that the bike consumes, so the system is always balanced and never produces extra high voltage. PMA type alternators produce full power (proportional to rpm) all the time, which often means the system is unbalanced. The PMA is over producing most of the time and the regulator has to dissipate the extra wattage in the form of heat.
The poorly made Chinese regulators, as sold by Mikesxs, HHB, TCbros and other aftermarket sellers, sometimes just can't handle the extra heat.
I use the stock alternator system on my 1978 SE, and it has worked perfect for the last 10 years that I have owned the bike.
 
I too wonder why people keep buying these crap PMAs. BartBuddy28....................the high voltage has burnt out your headlight, and may soon burn out the Pamco ignition, unless you stop using the PMA.
You're an auto mechanic. Have you noticed that the charging system, on most cars and trucks, is very reliable, and rarely ever burn out headlights due to high voltage.
The stock XS650 charging system is much the same as cars and trucks use. The stock alternator only produces the power that the bike consumes, so the system is always balanced and never produces extra high voltage. PMA type alternators produce full power (proportional to rpm) all the time, which often means the system is unbalanced. The PMA is over producing most of the time and the regulator has to dissipate the extra wattage in the form of heat.
The poorly made Chinese regulators, as sold by Mikesxs, HHB, TCbros and other aftermarket sellers, sometimes just can't handle the extra heat.
I use the stock alternator system on my 1978 SE, and it has worked perfect for the last 10 years that I have owned the bike.
....
I wanted to upgrade to this system because i have spent over $1,000 on replacement parts from mikes xs purchasing only oem equipment, but i have been repeatedly left stranded on the side of the road...so what it sounds like to me is im dead in the water, now $1500.00 into trying to solve the charging issue with my bike, and notbing to show for it but a worthless hunk of junk in my garage...this is outstanding, i cant afford another bike, let alone to keep paying for numerous repairs to this bike...sad to say i think my riding days are over..farewell
 
RG... what's wrong with the idea of using a voltage devidng resister and diode to control the 16vdc down to say 14.5vdc ?
in years gone by I would have said replace the seleanium rectifier...simple as that.... as it is supposed to control how much voltage is in the system
but in these things I'm not so sure... they have so much needless electronic crap in them it's hard to say !!!!!
i'm thinking put a voltage dropping resister in line to the battery, a hefty high wattage resistor to ground and a diode to the battery so it can't feed voltage back to ground through the big wattage resister.....
wouldn't that cure the problem of too much output from an altenator ? or is it TOO simple ?
....
Bob........
 
....
I wanted to upgrade to this system because i have spent over $1,000 on replacement parts from mikes xs purchasing only oem equipment, but i have been repeatedly left stranded on the side of the road...so what it sounds like to me is im dead in the water, now $1500.00 into trying to solve the charging issue with my bike, and notbing to show for it but a worthless hunk of junk in my garage...this is outstanding, i cant afford another bike, let alone to keep paying for numerous repairs to this bike...sad to say i think my riding days are over..farewell
Bart......................if you had come onto this site when you first had electrical problems, we could have solved any issue you have and recommended the correct replacement parts. This site has seen and corrected every problem that has ever existed on XS650s.
You also may have been able to connect with another XS650 rider in your area, who could have helped you with the wiring.
The Pamco you have is an excellent ignition. I would recommend you go back to using the stock type alternator.
We need more details. When did you get the bike and was it running then or not? What was the cause of break downs on the side of the road?
 
Bob....................its not that simple. Any bike can be made to run well, if the owner has studied the wiring diagrams and asked questions on this site. Too many after market sellers, selling poor quality Chinese PMA kits. PMAs are a bad choice for these bikes. The stock charging system is a much better design. If someone must use a PMA, they should be buying and using Japanese parts, or German parts if you can afford them, not Chinese parts. The PMA sellers are making big profits as they take advantage of the young inexperienced lads.
 
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Bart......................if you had come onto this site when you first had electrical problems, we could have solved any issue you have and recommended the correct replacement parts. This site has seen and corrected every problem that has ever existed on XS650s.
You also may have been able to connect with another XS650 rider in your area, who could have helped you with the wiring.
The Pamco you have is an excellent ignition. I would recommend you go back to using the stock type alternator.
We need more details. When did you get the bike and was it running then or not? What was the cause of break downs on the side of the road?
........well retiredgentleman, i purchased the bike about 3 years ago, under the pretense that all this bike needed was a new alternator rotor, i then, in turn, purchased said item fo the sum of $150.00 from mikesxs.net as per the instructions of the previous owner. Upon the failure of the first rotor, i then turned to this site for help, and recieved it in the form of instructions to purchase yet another rotor from mikesxs.com and yet again, the rotor in turn failed. I turned again to the help from experienced members such as yourselves from this site, who then further instructed me to purchased a new rotor and stator case, which cost me an additional $200.00. So up to that point i had spent $500.00 plus the original $1,000.00 for the bike itself, placing me at the sum of $1500.00 invested in this bike to enjoy the pleasure of riding. Subsequently, the rotor again, purchased from mikesxs.net, failed and left me stranded on the side of the road for nearly 4 hours while i waited for help. Ince i got home with the bike i tore the failed components out, yet again, and replaced again the rotor, and stator case, which added an additional $350.00 alone to the now grand total of 1850.00......new components were installed, and within two weeks bike left me stranded again...in the middle of an intersection, nearly having me killed due to it being rush hour. I had the bike towed to a mechanic, a neighbor had suggested, who thwn told me the rotor and stator case had failed again, along with the voltage regulator. So nownhaving to purchase again another rotor, stator case, and now a voltage regulator. At that point i had lost count of.how much money i had been blindly dumping into this hobby.. the repair had lasted about 3 months. And yet still again, left stranded on my way home from work. This time i had enough, i towed the bike to a reputable bike shop in my area where i had spent $1100.00 to have this issue resolved. After waiting 3 months to get my bike back, i picked it up, rode it to a point which was a half a mile away from my driveway, where the bike died again. I immediately had it towed backed to the place that had fixed it, and they replaced the alternator rotor, again as that had failed. I gave up on riding for the season as i was in financialctrouble and couldnt afford to keep spending thousands of dollars to keep this been running every couple of weeks. The following season, i started fresh, new rotor, new stator case, new regulator and a newly purchase interstate battery. This new repair had lasted anither month or so, before finding myself on the side of the rode on a dark and chilly night... towed the bike back to my house, and found all of the newly installed components had failed, rotor and all. I turned to every bike mechanic i could find including spending countless hours in this website doing research on how to fix this problem once and for all, following numerous amounts of wireing diagrams, and copious amounts of cell phone battery recharges to solve this bikes attitude problem once and for all. I gave up and bought another rotor, stator case, voltage regulator, and another new battery. I got maybe a month of riding in before the baike failed again. I again asked for help from mechanics who at this point had been tired of me calling and asking them questions about what is going on....ni one wanted to help me anymore, i searched this website for a persin in my area whi could help me, but no one on this site lives in my area, so i read some posts about this fantastic you cant believe it PMA kit, that was claimed by mikesxs.net to solve this charging problem finally.....now a new light at the end of this very very expensive tunnel. It took me another year to finally have the funds necessary to purchase this amazing setup from mikesxs.net, who additionally stated on their own website that this kit came with detailed instructions on the installation of this product. For several weeks before clicking the purchase button in mikesxs.net for this now $525.00 setup, i had numerous emails back and forth with an associate representing mikesxs.net, who assured me that "we literally sell hundreds of these kits and we stand by our products reliability". Now with a new blind faith from mikesxs.net, whom may i remind you i had been purchasing products from all along that continously left me stranded, i decided to take a leap and give mikesxs.net again another chance to win me over. PMA kit was ordered, it arrived a day early, wbich had me so excited i was in tears...finally i can rude my bike again!!! I opened up the box, looked like everything from the pictures were there, but no instructions as previoisly advertised. I immediatley emailed mikesxs.net , who subsequently told me to visit their site and follow their installation instructions. I did, and now im here, with a bike that is overcharging my battery, which i have been informed by other members of this site that will fry my electronic ignition if i contunue to use this bike using this set up. I am now also being instructed to return my back back to the orginal setup which has cost me thousands of dollars already. Im in debt now financially to this bike, and have no one to help me fix it. I need someone to stare at this bike next to me and figure his out...i cannot continue dumping thousands of dollars month after month to keep this buke going, of course i would love to just drop 10k on a brand new bike like everyone else can, but im a single guy with a mortgage payment, and cant afford a new bike, although its a nice dream to have......so that is my story, its ling and drawn out, but you did ask for some background, and now you have the ENTIRE story....i am now her begging for someone to come look at this bike, i dont know what else to do.
 
Wow, that is a lot of failure of parts. Something else has to be going on. What tests were you doing to determine that in fact these parts were all bad?
And to add to that did you try testing the regulator as I suggested?
 
Wow, that is a lot of failure of parts. Something else has to be going on. What tests were you doing to determine that in fact these parts were all bad?
And to add to that did you try testing the regulator as I suggested?
Yes i followed every single trst procedure outlined by this site, every single time, ohming the rotor, checking the leads from the stator case...repeatedly...everytime the bike went dead, i tested the parts, even when they werent bad i replaced them anyway just to eliminate the possibility of a sungle bad component, as i have read that one bad component of the stock charging system will cause the rest of the system to go bad...so again repeated testing, and replacing...spending lots of blood, sweat, tears and money on this bike.....
 
Wow, that is a lot of failure of parts. Something else has to be going on. What tests were you doing to determine that in fact these parts were all bad?
And to add to that did you try testing the regulator as I suggested?
Unplug the rec/reg for a PMA and run the engine is bad advice. There would be no DC to measure.
 
Unplug the rec/reg for a PMA and run the engine is bad advice. There would be no DC to measure.
Maybe my memory isn't serving me correctly but I could've swore if your getting voltage spikes you can temporarily unplug the regulator to see if the battery still spikes.
 
That is the most amazing story, I have ever heard on this site! As poorly made as many of Mikesxs parts are, its not possible to have that many failures consecutively. Many of those parts must have been working normally. You should have realized that your electrical ability was weak and you should have stopped buying the same parts over and over. Its not surprising that the local bike shop mechanics only sold you more parts, and did not trouble shoot to find the root cause of the problem. A lot of these young mechanics are just "parts changers", and don't have the knowledge to really dig deep into a problem, especially in older bikes.

Seems like you received some bad advice from members on this site as your troubles evolved. Obviously there was a root cause to your problems, but no one ever had the ability or ever took the time to sort it out. I'm surprised you could not find someone in your Rochester area with knowledge of these older bikes.

quote: "as i have read that one bad component of the stock charging system will cause the rest of the system to go bad".
That is another problem with the internet. Too many people telling lies about things they don't understand. That statement is not true at all. With the stock electrics, one part may fail, and its only necessary to replace that one part.

All I can say is you badly need a local mentor that has worked on older bikes, and has electrical knowledge. If you can't find someone all you have is websites such as this to help you find the real cause of your problems. Its very difficult to analyse over the internet. If I lived closer to your area, I would be glad to get your bike running.

These older bikes may not be suitable for everyone. Perhaps you need to buy a motorcycle that is new or at least less than 10 years old. Spend more money but you'll be able to enjoy the biking sport, without the frustration.
 
Bart....Buddy ! quit counting up the dollars ! hehehehe I know with an extreamily tight budget what else can you do Right ?
but seriously.... it just makes you feel bad and having to buy the same thing over and over again is Salt in the wound !
after reading this I have a feeling you are going to find a wire from the wireing harnis that is rubbed bare and grounding and pulling so many amps that the altenator just gives up in a few weeks or month at the most....
Have you checked the wireing harnis for bare spots ? I doubt it none of us do untill there is a serious problem....well...this is a serious problem ! it could be something as simple as the tail light (which is alwayse on like the headlight) that is plugged into the wrong wire
and you think it's working fine but it's over loading the altenator instead.....
it's not required to rip all the wires off and pull the wiring harnis out completely ! just get some slack in it and twist it with your hands to see all the way around it..... but then again it may well be easier for you to just replace the wiring harnis as it could have been bad from the factory who knows !?! .... nothing is as bad as having to replace the altenator every other month ! that's Horrable !
but replacing the wiring harnis is not for the timid or unskilled.....it's a bitch ! and takes a long time to get it correct 5T or2M could probably do it in a day but it would take the rest of us 3 days at least !
alternately..... you could test the main wires with a VTOM (volt ohm meter) and check them between ground too....
....... I think you have a short to ground above the plug in of the altenator..... I don't think its the altenators at all I think they were all fine when you put them in but in a short while they were fried...... I only know of one thing that will do that.... a Hot lead to ground somethere
find it and you should cure the altinator blues you've been having...and your new one will work just fine
I am thinking that the 16v that your getting on the meter is in error it shouldn't be that high..... especially with the electronics in the bike
....take the plug in appart where the altenator plugs in at and trace every wire to its destination make sure you have good continuity
and then check that against ground..... only in a few case should there be continuity to ground as well as continuity through the wire....
( like the ground circuit, coils lightbulbs etc.).....
I can't say for cirtainty that this is the problem , but it feels like it to me! at this point what have you got to loose but a few hours with a VTOM and a wiring diagram?
I hope that gives you some hope ! you can do this ! hang in there !
Bob.........
 
I dont think its a voltage spike, the bike continuously runs at 14.9 volts, 15.3 when reved to 4k-5k...which is a simulated 55-60mph while operating
I don't know what headlight you have, but I suggest you install the highest wattage low beam headlight that you can buy. Maybe that is 55 watts,I don't know, but try to buy higher than that. Your PMA regulator is having a hard time to keep the voltage down. Also use a regular #1157 bulb in the tail light. Don't use an LED tail light. If your PMA is producing 200 watts at 4000 rpm, you want the bike to consume as much of that 200 watts as possible.
 
That is the most amazing story, I have ever heard on this site! As poorly made as many of Mikesxs parts are, its not possible to have that many failures consecutively. Many of those parts must have been working normally. You should have realized that your electrical ability was weak and you should have stopped buying the same parts over and over. Its not surprising that the local bike shop mechanics only sold you more parts, and did not trouble shoot to find the root cause of the problem. A lot of these young mechanics are just "parts changers", and don't have the knowledge to really dig deep into a problem, especially in older bikes.

Seems like you received some bad advice from members on this site as your troubles evolved. Obviously there was a root cause to your problems, but no one ever had the ability or ever took the time to sort it out. I'm surprised you could not find someone in your Rochester area with knowledge of these older bikes.

quote: "as i have read that one bad component of the stock charging system will cause the rest of the system to go bad".
That is another problem with the internet. Too many people telling lies about things they don't understand. That statement is not true at all. With the stock electrics, one part may fail, and its only necessary to replace that one part.

All I can say is you badly need a local mentor that has worked on older bikes, and has electrical knowledge. If you can't find someone all you have is websites such as this to help you find the real cause of your problems. Its very difficult to analyse over the internet. If I lived closer to your area, I would be glad to get your bike running.

These older bikes may not be suitable for everyone. Perhaps you need to buy a motorcycle that is new or at least less than 10 years old. Spend more money but you'll be able to enjoy the biking sport, without the frustration.
I thank you for your kind kind words in helping me through this, i continuously bought the stock replacement components because as a car mechanic i know that there is in fact no real replacement for stock parts. Hence the ongoing effort to replace and re-replace with original type equipment, as i am now over 2,000 dollars into this bike, its no longer able to be sold to someone else to make it their problem, i am a freemason, and morally i cannot just pawn off my problems to someone else and put this whole thing behind me. As much as id love to just run right out and buy a whole new bike, its not financially feasable, since im not even further in debt because of this bike....as easy as it may sound, yes, nothing would please me more than to just dump the darn thing into a ditch, take my license plate, and scrape the vin, and pretend id never owned it...but i cant do that, again it is my moral obligation to mankind as a freemason to do good unto others as i would want done to me.....i could never sell this bike, or just flat out give it away to anyone, and be able to sleep at night. You see im married to this bike now, i live and breathe this bike, even though i wanna give up the whole shebang and never ride a bike again...so unless a bike is handed to me, or somehow i ein the lottery, it looks like i will never be able to ride again, and have to stare at this creation of a disaster in pieces on my garage floor...forever
 
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