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Batteryless xs650 capacitor fell off during ride

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Anthony1993, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    sorry Anthony I feel partly responsible because I assumed that you either had a basic understanding of electrics or that you'd at least read up a little on the subject from your workshop manual before trying anything .I should have made sure

    We have very little information to work from as we don't know what modifications have been made to the standard wiring or what components have been fitted to your custom bike. Its clearly not standard anymore.Pictures and some information would help us help you

    I would guess that if everything was working ok until the capacitor fell off and nothing else has been disconnected or altered since, then its likely your Rectifier probably got fried .

    If you have a very tight budget you could buy some used parts to test with . Used rectifier/regulators can be picked up off ebay for $10 likewise coils also.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1978-XS6...786818?hash=item2caf3106c2:g:xVAAAOSwXeJXf-mR

    I would suggest that you do a little research and reading of the thread Skull provided before doing anything else.

    Only change and test one thing at a time . If replacing a component doesn't provide a spark then put the original part back on before replacing another component. That way you know what made a difference if you get a result
     
  2. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Ok. I do have a pamco ignition. One of the resistors on the board was blown ( black and burned) took it to work and had one of the guys replace it for me and test the board, everything is good.
    The capacitor is charged, checked it with multimeter.
    I set it up like this and everything was running until the capacitor fell off during a test ride.
    There is no key switch or kill switc . Complete bare bones wiring to get the bike running. I'm running batteryless and its proving difficult to find info with someone that's running batteryless as well.
    I dont know what else to do. Coil checks out as barely good on multimeter, despite damage I caused, same story with the rectifier. But in all honesty I could be reading the multimeter wrong or have it on a wrong setting. I dont really think that's the case though, but anything is possible.
    All help is welcome. I just wanna ride before the weather gets cold. And I need the bike running for inspectionsat mvd in 2 weeks.
    HELP! thanks guys.
    Could the stator be fucked?
     
  3. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Not a lot of chop guys on here running battery-less.........In the link i posted about pamco, it has all information on running battery-less, the fuse requirement when running a pamco, (VERY IMPORTANT)............all the info is from multiple threads where Pamcopete answered questions about troubleshooting and advice on problems raised..........Lot of tidbits i gleamed from threads............and all the links posted where i got the information from..........

    .
     
    gggGary and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  4. Jim

    Jim People will come Ray, people will definately come. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    If I read that correctly, yes... black stuff oozing from a coil most definitely means it's f*cked. You'll need a new one. As for the capacitor, it'll take a charge from the PMA charging system first time you kick it over. Remember though, just because the capacitor is new... don't assume it's good. Bad parts do find their way to the postman... and to your door. Before you change anything else though... put a new coil in it.
     
    GLJ, gggGary and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  5. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Ok I'm going to buy a new coil. But I cant find a replacement. So you guys have any recommendations? I'm running this high output wat-Yong coil right now that I got from miles xs
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    ok guys ive installed the new coil. now my electronic ignition , capacitor, and coil are all brand new. unfortunately still no spark to the bike. i visually inspected the stator without taking it apart and it seemed very cleaned and good to go from what i can tell. next best guess would be to replace the rectifier right? and then what? ill be out of options at that point unless it could possibly be some mechanical that i dont quite understand yet?
     
  7. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    the best thing would have been to test the components and wiring that you had.

    In other words diagnose the fault ,........
    otherwise you just end up buying a whole load of expensive stuff you didn't need and it still doesn't fix the problem.;)

    I now it sounds hard but there are numerous manuals and troubleshooting guides available to buy or download free ...many of them on this forum to tell you exactly how to use a multimeter to test components .

    if you type into the search box 'NO SPARK' there are over 100+ threads that will give you a thorough insight into this common problem.

    If it were me I would bin the capacitor and fit a battery so that you can test the bike properly and diagnose the fault . Once you get it working then if you wish you can refit a capacitor .

    First test would be to check is that your alternator is actually putting out a charge don't just look at it stick a meter on it
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  8. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Have you read through the link i posted, Post #13..........??????

    Do you know how to use a Mutimeter....????

    A very good "How To" in this link
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/how-to-use-multimeter.27826/

    In the earlier link i posted in Post #13..........It mentions, if the coil gets taken out it can take out the pamco........If there is no spark, there is also a procedure that can be done, without a muti meter, to test for spark at the pamco............need a battery
     
  9. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    650SKULL.. i do not know how to use a multimeter. i had a friend over to give me a hand with the multimeter and he is very limited on the knowledge too as it has been a long time since he has used one. although he still had more knowledge then me , considering all i know about it is what ive read and seen online. i dont know anyone else with an xs650 so i resorted to this forum. i borrowed that multimeter from work and im going to buy opne tomarrow as im having a different friend come over to take a look. but after this friend i dont have any others that are into biukes or know about electrical.

    anyways. i have a 12 volt drill battery i could hook up. im just scared to due to what happened to my coil the last time ( i bought a brand new coil ) i dont want to toast this new one.

    thanks for the link. i will be printing that out and have it in hand tomarrow while in the garage trying to figure this thing out.
    man, ive been super stoked this whole build and everything has gone effortlessly, i was finally done and went on that test ride and now this electrical issue is really discouraging me .

    PEANUT
    i will tytpe that ionto the search barf right now. ive been scowering the internet looking for anything to give me a hint and theres just noone that i can find seems to have this same issue and if they have a similar issue then its with a 650 that is battery powered and that does me no good considering im running kick start only. right?
    thinking that they are different systems in regards to charging, power, routing ?
    also you guys should know that my wiring is EXTREMELY simple no fuses, no igniton key or switch, no kill switch, nothing . it was bare bones wiring just to make sure the bike runs. and i took it for a ride to test out the gears and this happened.
    as for the capacitor. will the 12volt drill battery work without frying my brand new coil? last time i used an 18volt and it fucked my coil up.
     
  10. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    xs650 electrical batteryless.jpg this is the setup im running. but no headlight, no tail light or brake switch, no inline fuse, and no key
     
  11. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    would you put an 18v battery in your car ? ............why did you think that battery voltage is irrelevant ? ............. I stated quite clearly that you needed to use a 12v battery . Motorcycles run off 12v power not 18v

    I don't mean to be insulting but if you do not even understand the basics of electricity you really should not be fiddling with the bikes electrical wiring and components ;) Not having a fuse installed is really irresponsible . Fuses are there to prevent damage to electrical components due to shorts etc and to prevent electrical fires

    The black object on your diagram between the capacitor and the key is a fuse ...put one in your wiring before you have a fire or damage another component:)

    whether you have a kickstart or a battery driven starter motor is completely irrelevant, ....they are merely a means of turning the engine over in order to start the bike . You can start the bike without either if you bump start it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  12. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    I posted a link to a muti meter thread.........although it may not seem to be specific for your situation, take your time and listen, and go over the first vid a few times....Not knowing and learning as you go it will take a while to understand............it is well presented and well spoken so a layman can follow it and understand.......

    one thing about those vids is his mutimeter does not look like most of the cheap ones, that's ok and why i mentioned the, "NOTE", in the paragraph below, and look at the meter in my Continuity thread i posted a link to.........this is what you are looking to buy.

    NOTE; When you buy a Mutimeter look for one that has an instruction manual with it........This is very important...........

    With the coil burning out, i would do a continuity test, Testing the wires with a muti meter without having any power in the circuit

    A thread on how to do continuity testing
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/continuity-testing-made-easy.49917/

    Some more links for electrical workings
    http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm

    Some reading to help understand electrics and why and how to do things........Homework
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/grounds-so-important.41775/

    Soldering and loom/harness stuff
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/soldering-connections.18305/
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/open-barrel-splice-video.54861/#post-594902
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/self-soldering-heat-shrink-connectors.54171/#post-583307
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-harness-musings.18925/


    Don't get discouraged.........there are faults that are now coming to the for, and this will help you learn, that and the members on here.........there have been a lot of guys with no knowledge and with our help they have rebuilt engines and restored bikes...........just ask a lot of questions if your not sure about something and use the search feature and tech menu in conjunction with answers given.........especially if no answer has come forth for a while...........we do sleep sometimes so you might find an answer while your waiting for one.........

    Here lies your problem............the 18volt battery,......Not just because it is 18V instead of 12V, because you don't have a switch to control the power........you need an on/of switch at least...... and also there needs to be at least 2 fuses on the Loom/harness......a 20amp on the power wire to isolate the battery and Reg/rect from voltage spikes to the loom and components, and a 7.5amp on the power wire before the coils and pamco to isolate the pamco

    Ignore the ignition switch, (you do need to install one when using a battery even if it is only for testing purposes), and the kill switch as you don't have them but this is how it needs to be
    , Pamco Text copy 3.jpg , Pamco Text copy 3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
    TwoManyXS1Bs and gggGary like this.
  13. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Thank you for the links and diagrams! This is a huge learning curve for me. I'll be in the garage going over everything you have given me all day. Big thanks
     
    gggGary likes this.
  14. mike in idaho

    mike in idaho XS650 Enthusiast

    TwoManyXS1Bs and peanut like this.
  15. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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  16. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    A thought...........There is a member, (DaddyG), who makes basic wiring looms for bikes, (Hard tails and any sort)...........it may be worth spending a couple of dollars to get something that is properly made and will be reliable......Even just send him a PM in the inbox to get his opinion on what a basic loom should entail
     
  17. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    i bought a multimeter, read instrctions and your link you posted for continuity testing . great job with that post by the way 650 skull.
    all wires are coming up.000 full continuity.
    i read a thread on this site about testing the rectifier and im getting OL on all the connections. am i doing this right?

    black probe to black wire red probe to yellows
    1/OL
    2/OL
    3/OL
    red probe to black wire black probe to yellows
    1/OL
    2/OL
    3/OL
    red probe to red wire black probe to yellows
    1/OL
    2/OL
    3/OL
    black probe to red wire red probe to yellows
    1/OL
    2/OL
    3/OL

    OL on my multimeter means over load. it also shows OL when the probes arent connected to anything.
    i have it set to the diode setting on my multimeter , which is the same setting for testing continuity.
     
  18. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    thanks 650 skull thats definetly an option and something i will be pursueing. any little bit helps, as im learning a great deal with everyones help from the forum.
     
  19. Jim

    Jim People will come Ray, people will definately come. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

  20. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Another point..........you can use a car battery to test power through the bike loom...........NOTE;..make sure the car is not running or accidentally started if your using cables while the battery is in the car.......better still remove one of the battery terminals, at least, or take the battery out of the car altogether.
     

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