Bendix gear installed...backwards? (Bike wont start)

[RPC3]

Hi Guys,

Recently did a little work that included changing the gaskets on the sump plate and the bendix gear cover (I think I've got the right terminology, just below and to the right of the drive sprocket). Anyway, I wasn't expecting the gear to come out when I pulled the cover off (should have researched first), and as a result didn't have the orientation in my head when re-installing.

Anyway, bike is back together. If I hit the starter, I get one click from the starter/bendix area, but nothing beyond that. If I try kicking the bike over, I can't get it to catch, and I'm getting some kickback on the kick lever - more than I've ever experienced before, when it does almost start.

It worked before I was in there, I double checked fuel, choke, power, kill switch, etc, so I don't think there are any other variables that could be in the works here. It was a total PITA to get that cover off (and I really thought it was only able to be assembled one way, but maybe not..), so I wanted to check and see if this sounds plausible, or if perhaps I'm missing something else.

Thanks!

 

[retiredgentleman]

The kick starting process has nothing to do with the electric starter gears.

What is your battery voltage now, and how old is the battery?

 

[RPC3]

I'll double check but bike started fine before I did anything. I also took the carbs off to replace the intake boots, I'll double check to make sure no wiring came loose in the ignition circuit tomorrow. Battery is only 2 years old and I keep it on a trickle charge when not used, rest if charging system is very healthy, so I'd be surprised if the battery went kirplunk over a 2 week down time.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Batteries can die anytime, especially if they are low quality batteries.

If you have a digital VOM, connect the VOM leads to read the battery voltage, and then watch how low the VOM reads as you hit the starter push button. The battery is likely OK if the voltage does not go below 10 volts. If you see 9 volts or below, the battery is very weak and may be dying/dead.

 

[RPC3]

Okay... Voltage bike off is 12.8, voltage drop when hitting the starter button is 8.0-8.3. Based on the above, sounds bad. At this point am I better off assuming it's my battery not cranking my starter over opposed to assuming I didn't somehow install my bendix gear properly? Again, I thought it would only fit back together one way (it was the plate cover, followed by the squiggly washer, then spacer, then gear).

I guess I'm just surprised, two weeks back everything worked relatively well. Battery is 2 year old agm, didn't show any signa of struggle in late may.

Fwiw, I did verify no loose connections in the ignition circuit or under either side cover.

Next stop a battery load test at the auto parts store?

*edit* - was able to kick the bike over, after which it seemed to operate normally. Voltage at idle running was about 12.8, would climb to about 13.7 if I held the throttle at 3-4k rpm. Even after warming up, the starter would just click if I tried the estart. Still seemed difficult to kick over once warmed up.

Edit #2 - starter solenoid is what is making the click, not the engine trying to engage or anything like that. I did have it apart last summer to clean the contacts, but it worked fine last summer and thus far this year. Confirmed the battery to solenoid wire isn't shorting to frame anywhere, and that all contacts in and around the solenoid appear to be good and corrosion free

edit #3 - I thought I read that touching the two posts of the solenoid with a screw driver would spin the starter. I tried it and just got sparks...so maybe I mis-read the test, but either way, that happened.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes, at 8 volts, it means your battery has failed its load test. You can try charging, but the battery is likely finished.

I have noticed a trend in which AGM batteries fail even when they are only 1 or 2 years old. My suspicion is that the battery retailers/bike shops etc. are buying cheap low quality batteries, by the boat load from China/Taiwan. You may think you are getting a bargain by paying a low price for a new battery, but its becoming clear, that's its false economy.

You get what you pay for with batteries. I suggest you don't buy the lowest priced batteries, especially with AGM types.

Your starter system is probably just fine.

Edit: Make sure you reply back and tell us how this story ends.

 

[RPC3]

Problem solved.

I ended up buying a new battery (American made, 80$ higher end one) and took some time away from the bike to let frustrations cool. Battery came on thrusday, and today I decided I'd install it. From when I had gotten my bike to kick over I noticed the gear train cover was still leaking (and worse than before), so I knew the only thing I could do was get back in and reseat that cover and investigate the bendix gear.

Thankfully the job went a lot smoother the second time through. I did have the gear in backwards. I hit the starter with the cover off and it did spin, so perhaps the old battery would have worked if the gear had been in. Perhaps the stronger battery would have caused the shaft to try and spin harder and screw things up.. Who knows. Anyways, I put the gear in the proper way, and this time I torqued the plate down the best I could (wrench could get to 5 of 6 bolts, last bolt had to be snagged by hand).

Put everything back together, new battery in, and no leaks, starter worked instantly, bike fired up instantly, no drips.

Biggest help was 1)taking the exhaust off, 2) taking the gear train out, 3) using a torque wrench on the cover opposed to trying to snug everything by hand.


Anyway, thanks again for the help. Time to finally get some riding in.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Glad to hear you got it working

Quote: "so perhaps the old battery would have worked if the gear had been in."
No, your old battery was dead.....................you saw 8 volts with the starter motor load pulling 75 to 100 amps.

The quality of a battery is not determined where its made. A high quality battery has good design and high quality materials used during manufacturing. Both North America and China/Taiwan/Viet Nam/Thailand can make poor batteries and can make good batteries. It just depends on how much the whole sale buyer is willing to pay when they order a large quantity of batteries. If they ask for cheap, they get poor quality.

I'm presently using a wet lead/acid battery in my bike, which is made in Viet Nam. I paid about $75.00 CAD, and it seems to be working just fine.