Boyer and Pamco Ignition

Grimly, regarding good idle when cold. Years ago I built a CDI for my RD using the circuit from Electronics Today International. In their article they said that the improved spark quality from electronic ignitions prevents missing due to plugs getting fouled with unburnt fuel at startup on a cold engine. The CDI was very good on the 2-stroke engines were you have oil/fuel fouling when cold.
 
Yes, as a comparison, when I put the timing light on the GS with its mechanical advance and Piranha ignitor it tends to wander a degree or two when idling. I put up with it, as a fully electronic system isn't worth spending the money on yet - although I might at some point. I have enough advancers and spare triggers to keep me going for years.
The same timing light put on the XS reveals a very steady output indeed.
 
Had no idea Pamco closed his doors. MIkes XS is good at copy other products and in most cases it's all junk. I'm personally gonna
use mrriggs toyota,gm hybrid ignition or flame thrower as in this video. Still uses the XS atu but i can deal with that. Gapping the plugs at .060 will definitely yield cleaner combustion.
 
Had no idea Pamco closed his doors. MIkes XS is good at copy other products and in most cases it's all junk. I'm personally gonna
use mrriggs toyota,gm hybrid ignition or flame thrower as in this video. Still uses the XS atu but i can deal with that. Gapping the plugs at .060 will definitely yield cleaner combustion.

Oh, that's nice. I knocked up a twin-HEI unit for my Suzi GS a couple of years ago, using the standard ignition triggers and mechanical advance. It worked well. Never tried the extreme gapping, though. A google for "HEI ignition for Kawasaki" will find the site I got the info from.
 
tell me about it ...:rolleyes: ...........Lambrettas eh....... tsk tsk
I believe CDI ignitions have a much faster voltage rise than inductive ignitions, no matter if they are points or electronically triggered/switched.

In fact, a German ignition manufacturer (Silent Hektik) used to argue that most inductive electronic ignitions (i.e Boyer, Piranha, Dyna, et al) gave a WEAKER spark than breaker points, all things being equal (same coils) https://www.silent-hektik.de
However that could be a sales pitch for coils......
 
Pazon ignitions mmmm ....
wonder how many folk realise that a Pazon ignition system is basically just a rip off of a Boyer ignition system the design of which was taken by a husband and wife pair that left Boyer Bransden employment and set up in competition in NZ !. Theres gratitude for you . ;)
 
Pazon ignitions mmmm ....
wonder how many folk realise that a Pazon ignition system is basically just a rip off of a Boyer ignition system the design of which was taken by a husband and wife pair that left Boyer Bransden employment and set up in competition in NZ !. Theres gratitude for you . ;)
Well, I was not aware of that. Like I said, my Norton Commando/ BSA Lightning/ BSA Rocket 3 riding friend really like the Pazon ignition. Maybe they improved the Boyer design in some way? Just speculating, of course.
 
well Pazon claim that whilst they worked in the R&D dept at Boyer they helped improve the design but even if they did that design was Boyers property and copyright . i would suggest that is why they set up in NZ where they are probably immune from a copyright action but that is speculation of course.

When I ran an interative electronics Company back in early 2000 I made sure that all my employees signed a confidentiality agreement but it still didn't stop one asswipe from leaving and setting up his own Company in his garden shed and selling my designs to my clients. :cussing:
 
Nothing dishonest happens in New Zealand. I know this for a fact! When I got kicked out of high school there for two weeks back in the 70s it was purely a misunderstanding. I was just keeping the items safe until the owner could be located - Honest!!
 
well Pazon claim that whilst they worked in the R&D dept at Boyer they helped improve the design but even if they did that design was Boyers property and copyright . i would suggest that is why they set up in NZ where they are probably immune from a copyright action but that is speculation of course.

When I ran an interative electronics Company back in early 2000 I made sure that all my employees signed a confidentiality agreement but it still didn't stop one asswipe from leaving and setting up his own Company in his garden shed and selling my designs to my clients. :cussing:

the people who are Pazon were contracted to boyer and improved the system, in doing so the improvements would be the intellectual property of the workers unless there was a contract clause..........
 
the people who are Pazon were contracted to boyer and improved the system, in doing so the improvements would be the intellectual property of the workers unless there was a contract clause..........

The Husband & Wife were employees of Boyer Bransden not contractors ?. He claims that he was eventually made a Director of Boyer ie an employee of the Company

Employees do not generally retain intellectual property rights over anything they produce for their employers unless there are special agreed circumstances..
 
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The Husband & Wife were employees not contractors . He claims that he was eventually made a Director of Boyer
Its clear that you know nothing about owning or running a Company .....Employees never retain intellectual property rights over anything they produce for their employers .
Is it by any chance 650skull and you are brothers that were mistakenly separated from birth? It really makes my day reading your responses towards each other.
 
Hey Guy's, I love both of you. Please don't get into a pissing contest that 1 of you decides to quit the Forum. I believe the goal here is to keep 40 year old bikes running not determining intellectual property rights .
tim
 
Hey Guy's, I love both of you. Please don't get into a pissing contest that 1 of you decides to quit the Forum. I believe the goal here is to keep 40 year old bikes running not determining intellectual property rights .
tim

you're right Tim but whenever I have made the effort to meet the guy in the middle he takes a step back and swipes me . Thats how its been ever since I had the temerity to question his wisdom about xs650 ID dating and my Yamaha seat 6 or 7 years ago .;)
Whenever I post he can't resist having a poke or a dig . When he stops poking I'll stop responding ...its a fair compromise :)
 
In designing an XS650 ignition system is it feasible to use vacuum advance? Is vacuum reliable enough at the carburetors? I am thinking perhaps the use of a pressure sensitive IC. I think that building an electronic ignition using stock points and mechanical advance is a very easy project. Going fully electronic with a microprocessor and a mapped electronic advance is quite a big challenge. A nice simple advance unit coupled with an HEI system as referenced in Grimly's Entry 189 above would be interesting.
 
In designing an XS650 ignition system is it feasible to use vacuum advance? Is vacuum reliable enough at the carburetors? I am thinking perhaps the use of a pressure sensitive IC. I think that building an electronic ignition using stock points and mechanical advance is a very easy project. Going fully electronic with a microprocessor and a mapped electronic advance is quite a big challenge. A nice simple advance unit coupled with an HEI system as referenced in Grimly's Entry 189 above would be interesting.
Some reading here. https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=420326.45
and this product; http://www.twins-inn.com/epages/78210236.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/78210236/Products/ZU007
 
In designing an XS650 ignition system is it feasible to use vacuum advance? Is vacuum reliable enough at the carburetors? I am thinking perhaps the use of a pressure sensitive IC. I think that building an electronic ignition using stock points and mechanical advance is a very easy project. Going fully electronic with a microprocessor and a mapped electronic advance is quite a big challenge. A nice simple advance unit coupled with an HEI system as referenced in Grimly's Entry 189 above would be interesting.
engine vacuum fluctuates too much I doubt you'll get a stable enough signal. Fuel injected cars used to use a AFM (throttle flap like a door) coupled with a rheostat to provide a signal to the ECU. I guess you could attach a rheostat to the throttle shaft which would give you a direct indication of air flow through the engine but I'm not sure how you could use that to adjust advance
 
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