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Boyer and Pamco Ignition

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 650Skull, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. shotgunjoe

    shotgunjoe XS650 Hunter

    At $360 not including sensors, I won't be trying it for ignition only applications. I'm gonna give something else a go first. I'm not quite ready for ignition yet, but my intention is to find something simple and affordable, as well as something that others in the community can easily replicate.
    gggGary and timbeck like this.
  2. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    what a crok of shit............You have never tried to mediate, PM me or ,make any effort to tone down any conflict..........You lie regularly, also lie about how i treat you.

    Our first conflict was long before the thing about the seat...........it was when you were asking about getting your bike ID'd........You didn't want to believe what i told you by repeatedly making a big deal about your bike being a Frankenstein in several threads that were ongoing around that time.

    I got a Pm from a member, who didn't post any more, after he read our iteration in the ID thread.........

    Ha, ha, that seat thread was funny............jetmarty was the other member trying to tell you you were wrong as well........the funny thing was you searched the web and found a seat the same for sale on fleabay...........spoke to the guy and used his answers to make your case for............when i tracked down the flea-bay seller and got a different answer to yours you rounded on me and accused me of harassing an 80 year old guy who doesn't know how to use the internet.......thats the joke right there..........you turned it from a fact finding mission to a personal attack on me because you were court lying again

    How much of this information is the truth or Peanut slander..........by the way i invited these guys to introduce themselves, told them there is a market for a good product...........
    grizld1 likes this.
  3. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    :umm: you really have got some serious anger management issues haven't you :)

    Seriously Doug just take a look through your post ......all this all happened over 6 years ago for crissakes!

    You need to put all this bitterness and resentment behind you and move on .........or its just going to keep eating away at you.

    If it helps you to put this behind you once and for all and move on ...........I have always been completely wrong about everything and you were completely right about everything ....ok ?;):) all this bad feeling between us has been my fault entirely ........

    All this nonsense really doesn't matter to me ........Life is much too short ... I just come on here to chat to cyber buddies , share stories , help someone when I can and ask for help when I need it . I'd far rather that you were an ally than an adversary

    You say that I have never tried to meet you half way well now we'll see
  4. timbeck

    timbeck XS650 Junkie XS650.com Supporter

    Sounds like a good plan to me...........Hit the re-set button and lets move on....
  5. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorns on XV1000SE Top Contributor

    I cut the following from the Pazon Website:

    Pretty Good!
  6. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  7. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    do you see skull ! ........ thats what I mean about me trying to meet you half way and you backing off with a swipe :)

    I don't think there can be anyone on this forum now .......that can be in any doubt about who the perpetrator is ;)

    I do genuinely feel sorry for you skull because you must be a very unhappy person, full of bitterness and vitriol . Even with all my serious medical conditions I try to maintain a friendly positive attitude with everyone because it is my nature .:)

    The past is gone ...the future doesn't exist we only have this moment in time now where we can change our lives .
    Leave the past where it lies and live in the present moment
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
    Greyandridin likes this.
  8. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    I wrote to these guys to get their feedback on their product and about the rummer they ripped off the Boyer system..........Email's posted below

    Hi, I have 5 XS650's. I am writing to you to inform you about slanderous comments that have been made about your selves and your ignition system. I belong to the premier XS650 forum, XS650.com. A member here has been making accusations you have ripped off the Boyer Ignition system when working for them and copied the ignition and selling it as your own. Here is a link to the thread http://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-and-pamco-ignition.46859/page-10 starting at post no 192. I an informing yourselves because i do not think it is right that this sort of behavior is tolerated. Especially over the net and especially as the XS650 has recently lost a good ignition system, Pamco,(to it being reversed engineered) and forced Pamco to stop production. Our community is crying out for a good replacement at a reasonable cost. I also invite yourselves to have a look at the site and to, maybe, join and offer some real information about yourselves and your product. The thread i linked to is one i made up about the pamco to help collect all relevant information into one thread, for the members and Pamcopete. Thank you, and since i have now found your ignition i will definatly look to you when i replace my point or if the Pamco i bought has any trouble The XS650 community, Forum), has over 27,000 members and a lot of these members have old Honda's, Triumphs, Kawasaki's, and belong to other forums. If one person spouts misinformation about parts supplied by companies then this will also reverberate around the other bike forums. As an X kiwi, (Taranaki), myself i do not condone this behavior and it is not in my nature to do so. All he Best, -----

    Hi ----,

    We would like to set the record straight on the comments made on the forum, specifically by ‘peanut’.

    We are a husband and wife team, who worked for Boyer-Bransden Electronics.

    I was there for 24 years, ending up as managing director.

    Together with my wife, Debbie, we ran just about every aspect of the company, and were both made directors of the company.

    When were made directors, we received no further benefits, other than the title ‘director’, which did not mean anything to either of us.

    We both resigned as directors about six months later, and left the company shortly after that.

    Neither of us had official contracts, only basic letters of appointment.

    Proper detailed contracts were drawn up for everyone in the company, including us.

    We ensured that all staff that we were responsible for had contracts, which were read and signed by all parties

    The contracts for Debbie and I had to be approved and signed by Ernie & Kathy Bransden.

    This was never done. We can only conclude that it was not important enough to them.

    When we left Boyer, Debbie and I set up a hair extension business.

    Quite different to electronics I know, but it proved successful for us.

    Running this did not require too much time on my part, so I used the free time to work on ignition system design and development.

    We saw an opening in the market for not only improvements on what was already there, but new products and applications.

    After leaving Boyer-Bransden, we received a letter from their legal advisors.

    The letter made claims, including that we had taken designs and stolen property (stock) from them.

    We responded with a letter, and all the claims were rebutted.

    In the letter, we also pointed out that Ernie Bransden himself had reverse engineered another person’s product (a dynamo regulator).

    I personally witnessed him spending many hours working on this. To be fair, I believe that the final product he came up with was an improvement on the original.

    No further correspondence was received from them.

    From the forum post:

    Pazon claim that whilst they worked in the R&D dept at Boyer they helped improve the design but even if they did that design was Boyers property and copyright

    No research & development was done whilst we were at Boyer-Bransden, except on the digital ignition systems.

    In the ‘90s, Ernie Bransden wanted to produce a digital ignition system, to run alongside the analogue systems.

    He designed the hardware, and my part was to write the software.

    Around the same time that we brought out our Sure Fire (analogue) ignition system, the Sparx brand came onto the market. Sometime later, other brands were introduced.

    All of these ignition systems work in a very similar way, but we haven’t heard or read of anyone complaining that these are a ‘rip-off’ of the Boyer.

    We appear to have been singled out for these negative comments, simply because we worked for them.

    However, with all the years of experience gained there, we believe that this lends an advantage to the products we make, and to our customer support.

    The patent that relates to the Boyer ignition system ran for 16 years, and expired before either of us joined the company.

    This is why the other makes of ignition system are not infringing the patent, as it is no longer in force. Copyright would not normally apply.
    The Copyright Act protects expressions (i.e. artistic). It does not protect ideas, procedures, processes, systems, method of operations, concepts, principles, or discoveries.

    The Boyer product labels continue to carry the patent number, intended as an anti-copying deterrent.

    Our Sure Fire system is an improvement over similar products in a number of areas, including design, function, reliability and user-friendliness.

    The other ignition systems we produce are far removed from the Boyer products.

    Our Altair and Smart Fire digital systems are unique to us in operation, and hardware/software design.

    Also from the forum post:

    i would suggest that is why they set up in NZ where they are probably immune from a copyright action but that is speculation of course.

    Our decision to move to N.Z. was set in motion before we left Boyer, and before we had set up our own electronics business.

    The move to N.Z. was for lifestyle reasons. There was certainly no ‘running away’ to avoid lawsuits or anything of the kind.

    We will continue to work on new ideas and applications, improving on existing products, to offer the best ignition systems out there for the classic bike enthusiast.

    Best regards,

    Andy Perkins


    274 Hot Springs Road

    RD 2

    KATIKATI 3178

    Bay of Plenty

    New Zealand

    Tel: +64 75495878

    Fax: +64 75495879.
    Team Junk, Paul Sutton, GLJ and 5 others like this.
  9. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I had hoped that we had seen the last of this vindictiveness* from you skull !

    I used to think that the reason for your incesssant* vindictive* behavior towards me over the past 6 years was due to you having insecurity and other mental health issues ............but this persistent crusade of yours is obsessive and bordering on stalking .!

    You're like a festering pustule on ones buttock that never seems to go away :)

    'vindictiveness UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
    ...a dishonest person who is operating completely out of vindictiveness.
    COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers'


    having or showing a desire to harm someone because you think that the person has harmed you;....... unwilling to forgive:
    (Definition of vindictive from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press'

    'Someone who is persistent continues doing something or tries to do something in a determined but often unreasonable way:' 'a persistent smell/skin rash'

    'never stopping, especially in an annoying or unpleasant way:'

    'someone who has an obsession '; ' a person who thinks or behaves in an obsessive manner.

  10. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    spitting into the wind.
  11. Ratranger

    Ratranger XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Can this thread get back to ignitions? Continued response poking at things makes you as guilty as anyone else. Same thing if you road rage back at someone, you are no longer guiltless and it's just as much you as them.
  12. timbeck

    timbeck XS650 Junkie XS650.com Supporter

    Gary and Ratranger are both right. The topic focus needs to be finding one or two good electronic ignition systems for our XS's.

  13. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    so its ok for him to be offensive to me without cause .......but its not ok for me to respond to his deliberately targeted abuse ...........
    is that what you are saying gary ?

    Some moderator you are .:rolleyes:......defending the behaviour of those that are being offensive, flaming or trolling on the internet is just the same thing as condoning it in my book
  14. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    thats easy for you to say ............when you are not the one on the receiving end continuously for 6 years :laugh2:

    Funny how none of you have made any comment about skulls post that started this off isn't it ;)
  15. Ratranger

    Ratranger XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    I've had plenty of things said about me online, to my face, etc. From what I've seen you seem to be going out of your way to keep things going. It's like my road rage comment above, if 2 people keep cutting each other off going down the road who is guilty? Both parties. Just block skull and quit responding.

    Hopefully with the loss of pamco a new set up for rephased engines comes on the market that is just as good or better. My solution works, but isn't for everyone due to cost and set up being DIY.
    arcticXS likes this.
  16. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    OK peanut I'll comment on skulls post. I did not read one word that i thought was offensive or flaming towards you. What I did read was skull getting facts to refute claims that you made against Pazon. In your 3 recent posts you have not addressed skulls facts. What I am reading from you is you deflecting from the fact you made false claims against Pazon. Maybe it would be best if you admit you are wrong or come up with some facts of your own to prove you are right.
    arcticXS and gggGary like this.
  17. mrtwowheel

    mrtwowheel Honda Etched On Brain Top Contributor

    I like opinions, everyone has one. When your opinion is different, say so.

    Stealing tech? A patent is a waste of time and money. The winner is the guy that brings the product to market first. Then he's only a winner if he can produce quality, value. If someone can compete against that product with better quality, value, good for them. If you're going to develop a product from scratch, consider that lost money or you cannot be competitive. Capitalism is the only way.
    Jim, timbeck, peterg and 1 other person like this.
  18. Jack

    Jack XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Why rehash what was said 2 months ago? Who cares who said what without checking the facts,I know i'm guilty in that department at times. Stop throwing logs on the fire and move on to the ignition topic which is way more important than you two bickering.
    Jim, timbeck and gggGary like this.
  19. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Happy ThanksGiving !
    Coffee and Macys Parade time here. Its just plain cold out in the garage and its a busy day to squeeze MOTORCYCLE time in.
    Signed in online and saw all the action was pretty much right in this old social battle thread ?
    If anybody would rather be productive I could still use help with info regarding the actual measured size. Not a chart number, of a 78/79 BS38 pilot jet bore the next size up over 27.5
    20191127_075255.jpg 20191127_062336.jpg Please do post in my 79 Special II Cafe Rescue thread to help minimize the expected notifications now from this Social Battle thread.
    Dont you guys realize how many potential members surfing the site stumble upon all the silliness and decide to just not participate? I have personally found 3 guys selling XS parts who have an XS650.Account and do not enjoy the site.
  20. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorns on XV1000SE Top Contributor

    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.

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