Brat Tracker Build - 1978 xs650 Special

[marine5811]

Hey everybody.

I'm new around here and I'm new to bikes in general, so bear with me because I'm going to have lots of questions and make lots of dumb mistakes, I'm sure.

I am picking up a 78 xs650 Special in a few days which has been sitting for a while (a long while). It's pretty rough but seems manageable.

A little background on the bike: It belonged to a buddy's dad and he bought it off a showroom floor way back in the day. I'm not sure if it was new or used at that point but the paperwork is clean and he had the good sense to non-op it when he decided to park it, so I'm not looking at a pile of expired registration fees. He did a little customizing while he owned it and had plans to build a chopper with a spare 650 motor he picked up but lost interest in both projects when he bought his R1. Lucky me, though, because I have one complete bike and two motors now for the low, low price of $0 (not including regular registration/licensing costs, of course).

The plan as of now is to get the bike running and learn to ride before I do any major customization/beautification (did I mention I'm NEW-new to bikes?). When I'm not busy laying the bike down in front of my house I plan on completely rebuilding/restoring the spare motor. Once that is completely rebuilt I want to pull the old motor out of the bike and start building the bike the way I want it. I have never liked giving names or titles to my tastes, especially in this case. According to everything I keep reading online I guess I am building a "Brat Tracker". I really hate to call it that because it isn't a Brat bike and I don't plan on ever racing it. Nonetheless, the world seems to know what pleases my eye as a Brat Tracker, so a Brat Tracker it shall be. The final plan is to get the rebuilt motor in the finished bike and then rebuild the old motor. I'm not sure what I'll do from there, but we'll see.

As for what I have already been up to: I am new to motorcycles but I am not new to wrenching. I will admit, though, I've never attempted a complete tear-down/rebuild. I am a diesel truck kind of guy so I am in pretty uncharted territory with this project but I am already having an absolute blast. I've always wanted a bike but could never justify the cost. Now that I have a "free" bike and the money is going out in chunks, though, I feel a lot better and I am already totally hooked. I am enjoying the building of the bike just as much as I am looking forward to riding it, so I am pretty much as happy as can be right now.

Ok, enough gabbing... Let's get to the good stuff.

 

[marine5811]

Like I said, the bike is pretty rough. Allegedly the bike ran about three years ago, but who really knows, right? Luckily, though, he non-op'd it, disconnected the battery, ran out the fuel, and disconnected/removed the tank. Despite parking it under an old semi trailer in his brother's back yard my buddy's dad seems to have tried his best to store it well. We will see how well he did once I get it to my place (probably in the next few weeks).

And here is the spare motor as I received it. He did have to rob a few things from this motor for the motor currently in the bike, so this is not a complete stand-alone. It seems, though, that he has been inside it. Many of the bolts on the top end have been broken loose or are missing and the inspection cover nuts/gaskets are missing except for one nut on each cover. Both side cases are missing and it would seem that some of their bolts and guts might be as well. I know for sure I have a missing stator. Beyond that, I don't really know yet.

 

[marine5811]

So in the last two days I have torn the top-end almost completely down. I thought I would get a little further yesterday but I ended up having to battle the cylinders off the pistons pretty much all night. It was a heck of a fight trying to get the thing pulled without breaking anything but I won out in the end. I don't have good pictures yet but I'll take some tomorrow - they're pretty good. The pistons were rusted to the cylinder walls, the cylinder walls are all corroded, there are wood chunks everywhere from my makeshift "pine punch" - it's pretty good carnage. Anyway, here are some pics from the tear-down over the last two nights. It's almost light enough to carry out to my shop from my garage now!

 

[marine5811]

So this is the primary motivation for my build. I am pretty sure that our very own westonboege built this bike (check out http://counterbalancecycles.blogspot.com for this build and other builds of his.) If you read this, man, you make some great machines. I really enjoy your blog. I hope you don't mind me throwing a couple quick pics of your bike up to give you some props. I might even have to steal this design right down to the general color scheme. There are a million possibilities out there but for me, man... this is IT.

 

[marine5811]

Got the valves pulled tonight. Everything below the valve guide is rusty and built-up on all four valves. I am going to try and clean them up and lap them by hand after I clean up the compression chambers.

I do have a question for anybody who knows, though: My valves' shafts look really good but three of them were pretty stuck in the guides. One of my intake valves was super stuck and needed to be hammered out with a rubber mallet and soft punch. Can I reuse my old valves if I replace the valve guides and seals? Also, do I need to replace my springs? I am not afraid of spending money but I obviously want to rebuild this motor as cheaply as possible. I only want to replace what really needs to be replaced or should be replaced.

What do you guys say? Am I good to reuse my valves and springs and replace my guides and seals?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey, Marine. You're well on your way.

Oh, boy, a 'grey area' question. Kinda like wanting to know how many months you can go before you need to change your underwear. Are you going undercover as a homeless wino, on a job interview, or on your first date?

If you want an engine that's on par with the dream build pics above, then it's best to go buy the book, and go by the book. Then acquire appropriate measuring tools to determine reusability of questionable parts.

It's amazing how much these engines can tolerate, and still run.
It's amazing how much these engines can't tolerate, and run bad, or not at all.

Good mechanics evaluate parts by close/critical visual inspections and measurements, plus a fair share of training and experience in the field. So, based on the information provided, my best guess is:

How many fingers am I holding up?

Here's a good thread that goes into what's involved:
(Starting at post #22)

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5583

 

[marine5811]

Haha. Ok, I read you loud and clear. I'll go check that thread out and see how I'm looking. Thanks for the reply!

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Trying to zoom in on your head pictures, the valve stem tips look like there is some dish/wear. If valve(s) stems pass inspection criteria, the faces and ends can be reground, but by only a few thousandths. Here's some valve job examples:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28056
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31786
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28536
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37918
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40542

 

[marine5811]

Good info there, Two. Thanks! I've got some catching up to do tonight but if I get some time I'll go out to the shop and inspect the valve stem tips and adjuster tips. I'll post pics, too, so you guys can give me some feedback.
I also browsed through the service manual last night and looked at the specs for the pistons, rings, cylinders, valves, guides, and springs. Looks like I have a few measurements to take after cleaning.

 

[tom4130]

Damn dude you tore straight in. I commend you! I will be following this as the inspiration for my build was the same bike, however I didn't tear down the engine.

Good luck man

 

[marine5811]

Thanks, Tom! I figure I might as well get familiar with it and I could tell just by the rust on the valve heads that it was going to need at least a top-end rebuild anyway. I suppose having a spare motor to experiment with gives me an extra measure of confidence. Plus for me it's almost as much fun tinkering with and building the bike as it is to ride.
Good luck to you as well!

 

[westonboege]

Marine5811 you know how to make a bearded man blush... haha

Yeah use what ever you want! Looks like you got a good start! Building these yourself is the best way to go! There is enough info and people on here to get you through everything...

I dont know the answer about your valves without being there... If you have a few that were stuck just try and verify that the are straight... If there is any evidence of interference with the pistons i would replace the valves...

Could just be corrosion and sitting that made them stuck... Could always clean everything and put new guides in and see how they feel.

If you get replacement parts, do research on the parts you are getting. Ive heard horror stories about cheap stuff failing. Most stuff is fine, but engine internals try not to skimp on.

Having a spare motor is key! Once you get everything simplified you can change a motor in about 1.5 hours... haha

 

[westonboege]

Oh and need any help with parts or anything hit me up!

 

[marine5811]

Hey thanks, man! I've got my eyes on one of your seats, so I'm sure we'll be in touch.
I'll have to snap a couple of pictures this week for you guys, too. I just got the bike to my house this morning and have been rearranging my shop(s) to get it inside. I had big plans for today but then the clouds started puffing up and going gray so I had to scramble to get all my junk inside before the rain came. I'll still probably do a little work on her tonight but I don't have enough room to take great pictures (tiny shop but plenty of room to work!)
Now that it's all said and done I can officially say that I have acquired the bike for $35 in gas and a plate of huevos rancheros at a local mexican food joint. All the guy wanted was for the bike to go to a good home rather than the junkyard. He's the father of a coworker and a former soldier. He was pretty stoked to be giving the bike to a Marine. When I told him it was my first bike he was even more stoked.
He has definitely put the miles on her but he bought her brand new off the showroom floor in 1978. I am only the second owner. Pretty cool, huh?
Anyway, I'll have to get some good before pictures and start a running checklist for the project so I can remember everything I need to do. It's a little overwhelming having all these ideas in my head and then actually having the bike in front of me.
I guess the first order of business is to get the bike running with its current motor and learn to ride? Haha. I'm sure I'll have some questions about getting an old sitter started so, if you have any advice, feel free to chime in.
Getting pretty excited!

 

[marine5811]

So I got a few 'before' pictures taken the other day but then we had a big rainstorm so the bike had to run for cover. Still working on getting the shop organized and cleaned up to do things the right way. After that is done I can really get going on this build.

 

[fredintoon]

So I got a few 'before' pictures taken the other day but then we had a big rainstorm so the bike had to run for cover. Still working on getting the shop organized and cleaned up to do things the right way. After that is done I can really get going on this build.

Hi marine,
interesting project, hope it goes well for you.
But I gotta ask, WTF happened to that speedo face, it looks like it's half melted?

 

[NONclow]

SCORE!! Keep the pics comin'

Fred, my guess would be replacing a burnt guage bulb with a higher wattage one.

 

[marine5811]

Hi marine,
interesting project, hope it goes well for you.
But I gotta ask, WTF happened to that speedo face, it looks like it's half melted?

Fred - Thanks, man. I hope it does, too. As for the speedo face I have no idea. I was wondering the exact same thing. PO did mention he was having some issue with the charging system when he parked it. I'm expecting several electrical gremlins to come crawling out when I finally starting kicking the engine over.

SCORE!! Keep the pics comin'

Fred, my guess would be replacing a burnt guage bulb with a higher wattage one.

I'll keep the pics coming as best as I can. (I know that's what you're all really after, anyway. )

Hopefully I'll have something to post this weekend. I'm trying to tackle the shop but then it's time to start cleaning and measuring engine and body parts. Getting into the good stuff!

 

[marine5811]

So here's a question for you guys. The keys for my bike have up and disappeared. I am already planning on an aftermarket ignition cylinder so I'm not so much worried about that but I am scratching my head a bit about the gas tank. My gas tank is locked and I don't have a key for it. Any ideas on how to open it up without the key?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... My gas tank is locked and I don't have a key for it. Any ideas on how to open it up without the key?

Hey, Marine. Strange as it may seem, type "windshield blade cap" into the upper/left 'google custom search' box. The first 4 threads should give you the tricks.

"Gas cap key" will give you even more tricks...