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Build Thread...Special to Cafe Bike

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MaxPete, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Okey doke - well, Demi's new rear wheel is assembled and the truing went fairly well. It still has a bit of hop at one spot, but the axial (side-to-side) runout is minimal. I will fiddle around a bit more to get the radial hop a bit smaller - but I’m pretty happy. Thanks so much to everyone for the encouragement and especially to NightHog for the excellent photos of his wheel. They were the key to getting this ding-danged thing done as the photos I had taken of my wheel before I disassembled it were not clear enough to discern all the nuances. There are many videos online about lacing and truing wheels and so I won’t go into the details of that process, but here are the key points for doing one of these 48-spoke Heritage Special wheels:
    • The kit from MikesXS / XS650Direct comes with 48 spokes :)shootme:) and nipples and a very nice 18” XSPerformance alloy rim to replace the 16” Special steel doughnut rim;
    • The spoke kit has four (4) different types of spokes: short & long inner spokes and short & long outer spokes - and you can identify each type by the angle of the spoke head: the INNERS have a slightly larger than 90 deg. angle and the OUTERS have an angle of slightly less than 90 deg. since they have to angle-in toward the holes in the rim. If you look at the photos below, you’ll see what I mean.
    • It is amazingly easy to mix them up - DAMHIK. I eventually got four Tupperware containers from the kitchen and labeled them - and I still messed them up a couple of times.
      9DE0731F-A895-4147-AADE-DD6A7708E648.jpeg
    87248043-ACC2-4CEA-8005-07393CCF4891.jpeg 7AE3E0E1-309D-44F3-82F2-439D094131FD.jpeg
    However, you must not mix-up the four types of spokes (they are packed into marked groupings but there is no indication of which ones go where in the lacing pattern). I called MikesXS and XS650 Direct but they couldn’t offer me any help <surprise!>. All 48 nipples are the same (although in my experience, some nipples are MUCH more appealing than others...);
    • The real key, aside from identifying which spoke goes where in the pattern, is to start with the correct offset of the spoke pattern from one side of the hub to the other - and the best way to figure this out for the 48-spoke rear hub is to stare at NightHog’s photos (see below). Look carefully at the area near the tire valve and note that the spoke immediately adjacent to either side of the valve are SHORT-OUTERS.
      Next to each short-outer will be a LONG-OUTER and then a SHORT-INNER and then a LONG-INNER etc. Note also the direction in which the spokes point relative to the direction of rotation. If you get all of that right, then the entire pattern on both sides of the wheel will work out properly.
    A1FA80BE-5F50-4EA3-8B94-E786B92DF410.png

    Don’t confuse the spoke pattern, the spoke direction and pattern offset with the sequence of spoke installation. As was pointed out to me earlier by (I think) 5Twins, the sequence is always to install all of the INNER spokes into the hub first and then connect them loosely to the rim with the nipples and then install all of the OUTER spokes and connect them. If you don’t do it this way, it will be impossible to thread all of the spokes into the hub - and you cannot bend them to get them in.

    NOTE: If your spokes will not go in fairly easily and without forcing anything - you are doing it wrong. Stop and start again. Anyhow, as promised, here are some more photos:

    INNER SPOKES INSTALLED
    E6DBD49D-02F3-4083-88B2-6FC8FCA6DA19.jpeg

    ...and now, a photo with everything in-place and on the truing stand (thanks for the spare swing arm Lakeview!):
    C9CF0F19-7D83-4A69-B814-D5CB1EB445F6.jpeg

    Like anything else, spoking a wheel and truing it is both easier than you might think and harder than it looks. There are several key tricks and tips but the most important is to be methodical and keep things organized. I have had all of the spokes in and out of this wheel at least 6 or 7 times :banghead:- and each time I thought I had it right - but nope.

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  2. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    19,263
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    813
    You're always going to get a little "hop" or flat spot where the rim is welded together. Even though they smooth it all out on the outside so you don't notice it with the naked eye, it will show on the truing gauge .....

    [​IMG]
     
  3. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Indeed - thanks 5T!
     
    2XSive and Machine like this.
  4. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Pete, your experiences, the photos, explanation of the problemos and how you got there in the end provides encouragement and safety net to tempt others to attempt the dark art of lacing their own wheels.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  5. nighthog

    nighthog Lifelong member of the Easily Led Club

    Well done, Pete. Clearly you have tremendous patience and tenacity!
    Did you go for the Mike's 19" front too, like I did, or do you have something else up your sleeve for the front?
    Cliff
     
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  6. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Buckhorns on XV1000SE Top Contributor

    Well done MaxPete/Nighthog. Do the spokes need to be tightened with a torque wrench or some other kind of tensioning device like they do with bicycles, or is it all done by ear?
     
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  7. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I plan to stick with the stock chromed steel 19” wheel Cliff. It is in nice shape and I don’t think my nerves would take another spoking job just now.

    As for patience and tenacity....well, at the present time I have nothing else to do and that bike needs a wheel, so I’m committed!

    In the old days, everyone just tightened spokes with a hand spoke wrench (which I used on my wheel - because it is more convenient) and tightness or tension was gauged by feel and by plucking them (i.e. by “pitch” like a guitar string), but now there are special spoke torque wrenches and as a matter of fact, I bought one online last week and it showed up late yesterday (but for GAWD SAKE don’t tell Cathie!!:yikes: or I’ll be on the run like Gary and Ken).
    219FEE8C-2FAB-4DAD-AA8C-7BCD1E24213B.jpeg

    It is made by a company called Tusk and it cost around $82 USD + shipping and the usual cross-border extortion fee from the Canadian government (good thing we’ve got that free trade pact with the Americans eh?). It comes with a number of wrench ends to accommodate different spoke nipple sizes and others are available from a firm called Rocky Mountaint Cycle & ATV Supplies. It appears to be a very high quality tool - nicely made and properly calibrated.
    F2D6ACE4-E44F-4559-8794-BEE0F34C1A8E.jpeg

    I haven’t yet used the Tusk spoke torque wrench on my new wheel, but I plan to later today and will report back. I bought it...because......

    My name is Pete and I am a toolaholic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  8. Tiesco

    Tiesco XS650 Addict

    Do you NEED to torque them though?
     
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  9. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Frankly, no.

    As I said, nobody had a torque wrench in the past and millions of bicycle, motorcycles, horse racing sulkies and wheelchairs ran along smoothly using the old “pluck and feel” method.

    To repeat, I like tools.....
     
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  10. Tiesco

    Tiesco XS650 Addict

    I like seeing that there's a right tool for the job
     
  11. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I think you're going to find that you can't torque them all exactly the same or the wheel won't be true. Some will most likely need to be a little tighter than others to make the wheel true. Now, if you could figure out what a minimum torque value is to make a spoke tight enough then you could check them all to make sure they meet that.
     
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  12. aldo5468

    aldo5468 Redleg XS650.com Supporter

    C'mon, c'mon, Pete - there's only 64 spokes in the front wheel, a couple hours at most! Piece of cake!
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Aldo - you a very funny man!!!!! :lmao:
     
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  14. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    Who da’ thunk they make a tool for torquing nipples? I always just did it by hand. :D
     
  15. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Laughing Minions.gif
     
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  16. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Torquing nipples? Is that even a thing?
     
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  17. Beags64

    Beags64 XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    598
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    Michigan
    ...if she asks
     
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  18. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    "Calibrated fingers" comes to mind in my case of course
     
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  19. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Now you boys - you behave young men.....

    0E7F9D45-579D-4ACC-BE8E-DE240F25445E.jpeg

    Hehehehehehe he.
     
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  20. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Sometimes they torque themselves.... :rolleyes:

    nipples.gif
     

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