Charging Problems! No spark! Stator?

BlackBandit

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Hello seekin advice on my bikes problems! startin to get frustrated with it but still staying calm! Goosefrabra goosefrabra! I bought a 1979 xs650 special and am doin some work to it. I have chosen to relocate the electronics from the original battery box to my own made electronics box under my own made seat and chosen to go to a capacitor setup (my inspiration
)just takin the battery wires and connect it to my capacitor a 40v 15000uf american made (bigger than recommened maybe an issue?). anway got it all made and bolted securely about 2 weeks ago was told by previous owner carbs flooded so i rebuilt them myself (have experience with Quadratoliets and edelbrock 4 barrels also mikuni round and square slides) order the kits and rebuilt them while i was building electronics box and reinstalled them. time for a trial run right!? kicker setup only so key on and engine kill switch set to run i kick i know gas is in the carbs because the special have a check valve and stright run fuel petcocks i filled them set to check valve. anyway kick nothin kick nothin okay i know the check valve works i sucked on the vacum line and fuel came out each petcock (tank off Owner also said petcocks leaked they didnt) so its flowin fuel so i turn throtte 1/4 turn kick nothin full kick i hear it chuggin so its defintely gettin gas. i pull a spark plug a little wet i hold against jug and no spark then fuel came out left carb. done kickin pissed frustrated aaahhhhhh!!!! okay its points i have very little experience with points but a haynes style manual would help owner gave it to me so i flip thru it thinkin that maybe my points are just off timin to the point there is no spark come to find out on is so i timed them even tho one was timed right and happened to the spark plug i pulled no spark so timing is on for sure (had my points familiar father inspect them). kicked a couple times out of hope still nothin so i move on i heard that stators are a problem on these bikes before i bought it i do reserach before buyin anything that raise my heartbeat when forkin over the cash which is anything over 20 bucks! anyway i notice when removing the stator cover that the brush guard has been hit but doesnt touch the brush holder i took the brushes out to see if the were just worn down to far but they were touchin the wheel next i began to check all the electrical components recommended in the haynes style manual (always buy a haynes when i bought my 1977 camaro and 1974 nova and 1985 s15 biggest help ever) and all checked out but the rectifier. pissed when lookin at stator to see if i had buy one to see price 100 bucks i gave up that day and went in to order parts.mixes xs bought brushes and solid state rectifier (possible problem with stock stator and magnet?) i recieved them today and installed the brushes and rewired the rectifier plug as stated on mikes xs and kicked the bike over no carbs just lookin for spark (didnt clean tank out no rust but small stuff stopped the needle seat from sealin stoppin gas thats why it leaked put float bowl back on waitin for spark to try again) and nothin thinkin of loading my ak need a good target so this time with my multimeter i prod my capcitor to see if im even building a charge and nothin stator cover still off i prod the brushes i get .01 volts when kickin iti checked my brush wires for seperation and they checked out so im thinkin my stator is bad 200 to buy replacement! F#@&! GOOSEFRABRA! Anyway questions.

1. How do i check my stator with a none running bike and capacitor setup?

2.Can the stock stator and magnet produce a charge and start a bike off of kick start?

3.Is there any issues with anything ive stated above that may resolve my problems?

I have pictures of everything just havent moved them to my computer. Things that check out: Compression(blows my thumb off), Regulator and its wiring, Brushes and brush wiring, Solid state Rectifier (new)and its wiring, Points and its timing (not sure on advance buts its not running so doesnt matter for now), Magnet (passed ohms test). I plan to hookup a car battery (if i have one thats holds a charge) to battery wires and try to start it to see if she even runs but no charge no spark on kickin it over.

Thanks to anyone who advises me and if advising me please give great detail.
 
The XS's in stock form will not run without a battery. If you want to use a capacitor you have to have the PMA (permanant magnet) conversion kit.
 
Is that because the stator doesnt put out a charge until a certain rpm? like 2000 or something so the bike runs off the battery for a certain period of time? that doesnt make sense then how can you kickstart the bike with a dead battery? and with the 270 dollar pma setup at what rpm does the stator begin to charge the capacitor? Also how does a dirtbike power its self off of a kickstart no battery not even a capcitor i dont see a difference in the two? When i take a multimeter to the brushes and kick the bike i dont get anything i get .04 peak voltage? say someone took their bike and turn it on but leaves the engine kill switch to off what would the output of their brushes be when kicked over or the 3 white wires to the stator windings what would the output be because i get .01 peak volts?

My question still to be answered is how can i check my stator with out a battery?
 
BlackBandit,

You are all over the map on this and it is obvious that you do not understand the stock charging system, a PMA system or the magneto system found on many dirt bikes.

Do us all a favor and get a manual on the subject and / or search this forum for the information. When you have formed an intelligent question, come back and we will be glad to help.
 
the forum searches are ridiculous i type a phrase and it searches for a specific word just answer me this pamcopete of south carolina can the stock charging system run the bike with out a battery with a capacitor in its place being kickstarted?

if not okay next question how do i check my stator for output to be working with out a battery? kickin it over and a multimeter hooked up gives me no output reading on the brushes or the stator windings.

final question at what rpm does the PMA setup begin to produce an output to the battery/capacitor? if more than 1500 rpms then the bike must run off a battery until the bike is driven or revved correct?
 
BlackBandit.

1. No.
2. Alternator requires a battery to start charging. The output does not come from the brushes.
3. The PMA starts to produce an output as soon as it turns. Probably less than 100 RPM.

Again, based on these questions, you do not understand how the stock alternator works or the PMA.
 
Okay so i need a pma to run a capcitor setup or a battery to run stock setup. and i dont know how they work this is why i posted this thread and ask questions if you dont feel like giving me an answer you dont have to. but thank you pamco pete from south carolina altho your first comment wasnt helpful at all and you didnt answer any of my questions i searched the forums before posting this thread and saw no other thread that would help me thus i posted this one and finally got an answer after badgering you for answers but thank you

i would like my questions addressed not comments made i could of had this answered along time ago what grinder posted to me is just a comment beacuse he just stating something not telling me why and what ive done wrong so far. you need a pma to run a capacitor. why is that?is the first thing i thought. what should of followed was. the stock chargin system doesnt produce a charge unless power is added to the magnet to produce a magnetic field. A pma on the other hand will produce power without any input power chargin your capacitor off of kickstart. thus checking your stator with out a battery is useless!

you dont state something without backing it up with evidence!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bandit, not trying to be an ass or anything but with posts like these you probably won't get much help from anyone else on the site.
2 bits of advice on where to find info for some of the basics of these old girls:
1. Manual - get a manual and read it until you can recite it from meory in your sleep.
2. Tech section - there is a wealth of info on everything xs related.
 
BB you were given the answers and you do not even know it. With that attitude why should Pete or anyone help. This forum is not a cookbook to follow. There is an abundance knowledge to be had but not on a demand basis.
 
The search works okay... if you know how to use it. Like almost all search tools on the internet, if you want to search for an exact phrase, you need to put the phrase in quotes. Also, the advanced search allows you to search entire threads or just thread titles, and display the results as posts or threads. A search for "charging system" searching only thread titles and displaying results as threads would have been a good place to start. Searching by tags is useful too. I've tagged this thread with a few keywords. See the tags box below and the similar threads box as well. Lastly, the Tech section has some good info on the electrical systems of the bike.

I know it's frustrating when you can't easily find the information you're looking for, but no one here is paid/obligated/required to answer you questions or help. Members help others if, when, and how they want. We all should be grateful for any free help we get.
 
Myave i should of bolded the last 7 words of the original post might help to reread if you are to advise me. but i got the answer i wanted from pamcopete of south carolina after asking twice and from how long it took him to answer didnt seem hard and if you read the original post i have and read the manual and checked everything worth checking in its troubleshooting guide and the one thing i couldnt test and wish to know how to test i posted on here and got an answer indirectly from pamco pete of south carolina still dont know how to check stator without a battery the first comment i received i didnt know whether to believe because it was understated with evidence. according to pamco pete of south carolina my stator requires a battery to produce a charge back to the battery and if coils work spark the plugs. 1st question unanswered 2nd answered and 3rd answered after i asked twice seems like what this thread was originally about was overlooked and 1 question answered and another after several posts and last one still to be answered given the answers i might be better off on my own since you havent read my original post ive done my reading i think you should too i rarely ask questions that i havent tried researching before getting into also stated in original post! besides all that thank you PamcoPete of south carolina read last sentence of the original post.
 
Travis of wisconsin i have searched thru the tech threads and from all the ones slightly applying none i saw had a stock charging system and runnin a capacitor otherwise i wouldnt have to look like the idiot right now. and i stated at the end of the original post i thanked every adviser and thanked every poster who gave decent advice and im beyond frustrated with this bike.
 
BlackBandit, if you get some type of battery and get power directly to the coils, you can work on getting your bike going. You don't need a charging system for the bike to run as long as you have a power source.

You can also download a manual to understand how to set the points and timing from biker.net
Do a google search xs650 manual download

If do decide to fix it with the ak, do a video, put it on youtube and send us the link:D
 
i tried a battery and now found that my bike has been hillbilly wired by the previous owner my turn signals dont work all 4 come on when set to left side and then turned off and set to right side a 4 are on no matter what except when turned off and no flashin i located the flasher and am gonna try a different flasher tomorrow also found that i still dont have a spark and hmusket of Michigan i set the points and its timing already took me abit to figure out the second cylinder but my father double checked it and is good as stated in the original post. the battery i am using is goin bad so it doesnt hold a charge so headlight and gauge lights only stay on for a bit until battery is drawn down. the one thing i diidnt check was to see when kickin it over with the battery if the stator was even putting the smallest charge back into the battery.

I STILL NEED TO KNOW HOW TO CHECK THE STATOR ON A NONE RUNNING BIKE?

when i pulled the head lamp to see the electrical behind it i found it had been hillbilly wired 3 or 4 wires had either been broken or cut but had been reconnected with wire nuts and found one wire holding on by one strand and still needs to be fixed and one wire to the main ignition switch had broke off at the plug and wirenutted to the cut wire on the opposite side of the plug. also the ground wire for my turn signals had been broke and was wirenutted to the ground for the headlight. i have begun following and tracing wires in my haynes style manual to start eliminating my hillbilly wiring. thats when i got frustrated and gave up for tonight.
 
Haynes manuals are for cars and trucks thats why i stated haynes style manual because the name of the manual is worn to the point its unreadable on cover and the spine but ive tested what it said which tested each brush basically just to see if severed or broken wires and then the stator windings which also just checked for broken or severed wires. i have yet to be able to start the bike because of no spark and i still dont know how to check to see if my stator is even puttin out a charge back to my battery. does the battey have to have a full 12.7 volts to spark because its sittin at 11.3 and 10.6 with ignition on and when testing the main ignition switch plug the manual says to test the voltage at the red wire (power wire) doesnt say the voltage it should be gettin but multimeter say 6.7 volts should that be close to the same as the battery around 10.5 for mine? next testing the condenser i was lookin last night and my manual didnt say how but the clymer link did but its a load test and how do you test in uf scale on a multimeter or is that not possible? and this biker.net link clymer manual just checks the windings also im pretty sure all mine checked out but will check again. and it states if they are good the coil is bad but i dont know that for sure because i cant get spark to start the bike and see if it charges the battery for the first step. still very rustrated with this bike and gettin worse the more i work on it and find more worn hillbilly wiring.
 
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