Clutch has tension but is not engaging/disengaging

[backwithabang]

Just finished a 76xs650 bobber project and I'm really into it. Fires on the first kick, carbs dialed in, wiring is pretty good and well hidden. However when I tacked on the electric box today and took the day off from work for the first ride I ran into a problem. Popped it into first and kapoot, I stalled. tried it again, same thing. Attempted the fabled worm gear twist to touch then back off and tighten to no avail.

Here's the odd thing, I made sure it was easy to shift through the gears with the bike off after every adjustment and had proper clutch lever tension. So everything seemed right. I checked for a safety relay I ay have missed, well i dont have any.

So mr. hugh of the handbuilt variety suggested I tried rolling the bike in first with the clutch squeezed and goddamn, he was right. That clutch wasn't working although it sure felt like it should.

So guru's of the board, what do you think it is? Stuck plate? or maybe some fairytale plastic piece I have heard rumors about in the clutch mechanism that often cracks, and the tension I feel on the lever is merely me pushing open that cracked piece and doing jack shit to the clutch?

Any help and where to begin would be very welcome. Mikesxs part numbers ect.

I really want to get on this thing for october and ride it a month before the darkness and cold of the Buffalo winter takes over

By the way here's how she sits right now

 

[Gordon]

First off, you gotta put the cover on. When you adjust the lever in the cover, turn in until resistance is felt, then back of until no resistance is felt. Between these two spots is where you need to lock down the 12mm nut. I go until I just start to feel the resistance, then back off between 1/8 - 1/4 turn. Thats all for that part. Now, on the lever on the bars, I have about 1/2 inch of play before the lever starts to get harder to pull. Now, try to push the bike in gear with the lever in. Does it move? Your plates could be stuck together. Try driving it around a little, holding the clutch lever in and rolling on & off the throttle. This will often time's 'free' up the discs and plates, thus not having to diss-assemble the clutch. That happens allot to vehicles that sit around for some time.

 

[backwithabang]

yea, I have the cover on. That pic was about five days old. Everything seems "right" both bearings are visible in the adjustment rod. I did the classic push in to touch then back off a quarter turn and tighten the lock nut and fine tune with the lever trick too.

But even when the clutch feels like it should be tip top, it's clearly not working. Off a dead start it just stalls like I'm a rookie on a bike. If I put it in gear without the bike on it clearly goes into gear but rolling it around with it in gear and the clutch squeezed has to effect on it. I suppose I can try the ol' run like hell in first to pop it on and see if that will free it up.

 

[Gordon]

I was jokin' 'bout the cover, but you knew that huh? Yea, try that. Also, if to no avail, remove the cover again and remove the plastic worm screw. clean it up good and look for possible cracks. If good lube it up and the check that there is a ball in the end of the worm screw. Often time's they do like to jump out and play hide and seek. If that aint makin' it work, your gonna have to dis-assemble the clutch basket and check all that stuff.

 

[backwithabang]

yup, tomorrow is play with the clutch day. Draining my oil 4 x in two days is becoming one of my favorite things in the world. I found that bearing in the plastic shaft, but it seems off centered or like wedged in the back corner. I wonder how to fish that out, perhaps the old 2 dollar harbor freight magnet on a stick thing they sell.

the gasket is pissing oil now too, but as a plumber I have a few tricks for that before I get a 5 dollar part at mikesxs for 9 dollars in shipping cost

 

[weekendrider]

So far you've been talking about clutch adjustments on the dry side.
But if you are dropping the oil you've had access to the clutch itself?

 

[backwithabang]

ok, I'm going to try to be more detailed on this post.

I have taken both sides of the engine case off.

I tried getting the bike on a lift and zip tying the clutch lever closed, put the bike in gear and spinning the rear wheel, I got it to the point where it was sliding a little but it felt like the rear brakes were engaged (which aren't even hooked up so that's not the problem).

I then took apart the clutch basket and separated the friction plates and the metal discs. Discs were tip top, friction plates were kind of shitty, lots of orange gunk on em. I cleaned them up as best I could, did some filing in the grooves where they slide and reinstalled them. I got a lot more separation at that point, but not enough.

I took the basket off again.. this time I removed the plunger and pushed out the pushrods and bearings. they were all there but I really had to push them to get them out. I'm running the stock 76 setup with 2 smaller pushrods and 3 bearing. One before the plunger, one between the pushrods in the pushrod gasket area and one in the worm gear adjuster assembly.

I reassembled the pushrod assembly and then I got a lot more play but still not what I wanted. However I deemed it was enough to get the bike moving without stalling. So I pb blastered the shit out of the basket and plates, tacked it all up, threw in my 3.5 quarts of oil and fired her up. I put it in first and behold! I took off down the street at night with no lights. 3 houses down I looked back and it looked like I added a button to release an oil slick to thwart enemies who may be chasing me ala SPYHUNTER. I immediately flipped my kill switch and walked her back in the garage.

Reopened the left side panel and my pushrod gasket was like niagara falls.

This is my theory.. The seal was cracked before I even got the bike, because the clutch always was kind of shitty. But never having an XS before (I was a Honda guy) and hearing all the tales of woe about the XS clutch I figured it was normal.

What I think happened is that when the pushrod engaged the bearing between the two rods was pushing sideways into the crack in the seal doing two things. Making a very ineffective clutch and plugging any small leak that may have occurred. When I popped everything out I opened a nice size hole inside that gasket, thus oil pump starts cranking and we have a geyser.

Now clutch parts at Mikesxs seem to be as rare as Gasoline in Beyond the Thunderdome at the moment. No friction plates or that long replacement rod are in stock.

I managed to find a set of plates for 30 on ebay but of course they are coming from Japan. Mikes did have pushrod seals, I grabbed 2 of em because I know I'm gonna mess it up the first time. I also grabbed one of those metal sleeves that goes in the seal to hopefully avoid this problem in the future

On a positive note. I now know the xs clutch pretty damn good

 

[Gordon]

Sound's like a typical clutch problem after sitting awhile. You probably didn't need the friction plates, but, what the hell, you got 'em. On the Mike's web site, there is a detailed tip on how to replace the clutch rod seal and bushing. It's too bad about the long rod being sold out, as that mod is one of the easiest and best to do. You are correct in that the small rod does indeed 'flex', causing the seal/bushing to wear out quickly. BTW, wasn't it your turn to oil down the road? I really hate it when that happens. I am glad that the clutch is working for you now, and because of all the parts that have to move when trying to rotate the rear wheel in gear with lever pulled in, your gonna have allot of resistance, normal. Do that push rod as soon as you can, probably over the winter. Of course you can ride it, the bike came that way. A guy that was here for a long time until he passed, did a mod to the stock rods. He wqould put a little 'dimole' on the ends of the rods, so that the ball bearing would stay centered between the rods. Put's allot less side deflection on them.