Clutch hub(cushion spring) rebuild w/pics

[Pat D]

So I started on the process last week, and finished up over the weekend. Interesting exercise, there are a few things going on in there that aren't addressed in any of the data I've found on this repair. I'll run through my experience pic by pic.
Here's the hub prior to any work, note the broken spring.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0698_zpsdmdwxgh0.jpg.html
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0697_zpsuew7ngbt.jpg.html?sort=3&o=34
Starting to drill the rivets. My cheap Harbor Freight drill press isn't the most precise, but I wouldn't recommend trying it free hand. I drilled a small pilot hole all the way through, that probably wasn't necessary.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0748_zpswyjizh1f.jpg.html?sort=3&o=30
Hub after getting it free of the gear.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0749_zps4rfeeuv8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=29
Here is the gear with the stamped steel cover plate removed.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0750_zpsis5pfkou.jpg.html?sort=3&o=28
And the stamped cover. Note the spacers on the rivet shafts, note the orientation(the fat part goes toward the steel plate).
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0751_zps00tshcmb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=27
Here is the unit with the springs out in its original configuration.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0752_zps7qfkkdo8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=26
Steel plate prior to getting the spacers and rivets out. Note the steel gear and the slots that let the clutch basket move against the springs.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0754_zpsxsjp5dno.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24
This was new to me. When I was cleaning the aluminum basket of metal filings and oil, I hit it with the air gun and 2 washers/spacers blew into the dark recesses of the garage. Oops. I found 'em, and determined the orientation to be as follows. First, the flat spacer goes on the aluminum basket.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0765_zpsu4soirzn.jpg.html?sort=3&o=22
Then, the convex spacer goes on top of the flat one. I figured the orientation based on the shiny wear pattern on both the convex spacer and the steel gear.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0768_zpspsgelhnz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0769_zpsc1vsfxfk.jpg.html?sort=3&o=18
Now we start on getting the springs in. The recesses in the aluminum basket are equal size, and the springs will have to be compressed a bit to get them in. A pair of slip joint pliers worked nicely.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0770_zpsvnarrtnr.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0771_zps4sefl2b7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=16
Once the springs are in, place the spacers(fat side up) in the slotted portion of the steel gear. 3 of the springs will not interfere with the gear, 3 will need to be compressed to fit in the steel gear slots. These 3 are the first to absorb driveline shock, then the other three start carrying the load.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0772_zpsk9ifcyny.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0774_zpsrlu9j9qs.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13
Getting the steel plate into place took a few tries. The springs need to be compressed for the plate to fit over them, and the plate needs to be fully seated before the bolts are installed. I ended up using the bolts to hold things in place while I used a screwdriver blade to get the springs home.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0780_zpsvk9zwgi1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0782_zpsxwa2uigt.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5
After everything is home and happy, torque down the nuts and apply red loc-tite. Let cure as directed and then you are good to go. I couldn't get Allen head fasteners for the clutch spring bolt mod, so I went with regular hex heads. Worked fine.
http://s292.photobucket.com/user/patdepkin/media/DSCN0784_zps3vjhu393.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Buttoned everything up and have put maybe 50 miles on the bike, everything seems fine.
Well, I tried to get the images to show up, maybe one of the mods can fix it so they are visible rather than links.

 

[5twins]

Looking through your pics, I came to the one showing the back of the inner hub with your new hex bolts installed. If they're tight then I don't think you've used long enough bolts. 40mm is the best length, looks like maybe you used 35s?

 

[Pat D]

Good catch. I was going to address that. Call me a test case, but when I put everything together to check clearances(I did buy 40mm bolts), I saw that they were a few threads shy of flush with the back of the assembly when tight. This is due to me not taking enough material off the original screws. But, when I looked at how much thread was engaging with the hub itself, it looks like I've got 3/4" to an inch of fastener/thread interface, and I was too lazy to take another mm or 2 off the spacer heads. I doubt(my opinion only) that engaging those last few threads will make any difference in longevity or performance. Like I said, call me a test case. EDIT- in the pic you are looking at, they are not tightened all the way up. As stated, when tight. they are only 1-2 mm shy of flush with the back of the hub.

 

[5twins]

OK, they should be fine like that then.

 

[weekendrider]

So I started on the process last week, and finished up over the weekend. Interesting exercise, there are a few things going on in there that aren't addressed in any of the data I've found on this repair. I'll run through my experience pic by pic.
Here's the hub prior to any work, note the broken spring.

Starting to drill the rivets. My cheap Harbor Freight drill press isn't the most precise, but I wouldn't recommend trying it free hand. I drilled a small pilot hole all the way through, that probably wasn't necessary.

Hub after getting it free of the gear.

Here is the gear with the stamped steel cover plate removed.

And the stamped cover. Note the spacers on the rivet shafts, note the orientation(the fat part goes toward the steel plate).

Here is the unit with the springs out in its original configuration.

Steel plate prior to getting the spacers and rivets out. Note the steel gear and the slots that let the clutch basket move against the springs.

This was new to me. When I was cleaning the aluminum basket of metal filings and oil, I hit it with the air gun and 2 washers/spacers blew into the dark recesses of the garage. Oops. I found 'em, and determined the orientation to be as follows. First, the flat spacer goes on the aluminum basket.

Then, the convex spacer goes on top of the flat one. I figured the orientation based on the shiny wear pattern on both the convex spacer and the steel gear.

Now we start on getting the springs in. The recesses in the aluminum basket are equal size, and the springs will have to be compressed a bit to get them in. A pair of slip joint pliers worked nicely.

Once the springs are in, place the spacers(fat side up) in the slotted portion of the steel gear. 3 of the springs will not interfere with the gear, 3 will need to be compressed to fit in the steel gear slots. These 3 are the first to absorb driveline shock, then the other three start carrying the load.

Getting the steel plate into place took a few tries. The springs need to be compressed for the plate to fit over them, and the plate needs to be fully seated before the bolts are installed. I ended up using the bolts to hold things in place while I used a screwdriver blade to get the springs home.

After everything is home and happy, torque down the nuts and apply red loc-tite. Let cure as directed and then you are good to go. I couldn't get Allen head fasteners for the clutch spring bolt mod, so I went with regular hex heads. Worked fine.

Buttoned everything up and have put maybe 50 miles on the bike, everything seems fine.
Well, I tried to get the images to show up, maybe one of the mods can fix it so they are visible rather than links.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nice write up Pat!
I'm not a mod but it is easier to follow the story line without having to click between windows. Hope I didn't screw the order up. If I did point it out and I'll edit.
If you move the pictures in your album . . . the pics here will poof ---disappear.
So. . . .anyone that wants these for reference needs to copy and paste to Word(or other alternative) and save to their hard drive. Or host the pictures in a site album and hope xs650.com doesn't disappear.

 

[Pat D]

Yeah, I'm not sure why I couldn't get 'em to show up, I used the

 

[marp68]

Nice description.
I did mine a couple of years ago and it's still working okej.

 

[abyssmaltailgate]

What size drill bit did you use? From what I measured, seems a 1/4" or a similarly sized metric drill bit is the ticket.

 

[Signal]

Thanks for posting Pat D and Weekendrider. Its good to have something to refer to for the order of assembly.

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

Good Morning, Having gotten the TX650A on the road this spring, and running about 250 miles, the clutch started making a thrashing sound at about 3000 RPM (under load). No sounds whatsoever when the bike is in neutral. This was a top-end rebuild and it is tight. I parked it in July, and just finished installing new friction and steel plates, plus clutch springs and 2 mm bearing. Three of those original steel plates were warped ( failed 0.008 feeler gauge test, and one was noticeably gouged!) All of the washers originally were in the correct position I believe. The clutch now works great! - Except I still have a bit of thrashing sound under load around 3500 RPM.
I noticed that the clutch hub cush springs were different - 3 are large diameter wire, and 3 are smaller diameter wire - they're distributed evenly in the hub, but rotate freely in the hub. Sorry - didn't take a picture. There was also some wear on the engine case on the right side behind the basket. At some point the basket has impacted the cases. The basket itself rocks a bit by hand after I slid it onto the bushing - is it supposed to?
Would these loose clutch hub cush springs cause this thrashing sound under load? More twist of wrist = more thrashing sound.
thanks!

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

This is the photo of the gouge. I've only ridden this bike about 350 miles. I don't know when this happened.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yes, pretty bad gouging there.
The basket's inner brass bushing could be worn.
Double check your clutch hub washers, thickness and order.
Do a forum search on "basket spin test", read all them threads...

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

Thanks for the recommendations TwoMany. Ran the bike about 100 miles and removed the smaller of two oil filters after work today and found new aluminum shavings. :-( No more riding until this is sorted. Will get back to you after evaluating the parts.

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

Good Morning - just took it apart again. All of the washers were in the correct order of assembly and all the correct thickness. I've read the threads on the basket spin test, but have not yet done it as I still need to remove the crankshaft pinion. How do I prevent the crank from turning when I am loosening (or tightening) that nut?
Attached is a new pic. After running about 100 miles with fresh oil, I did have some aluminum shavings in the oil - terrible, but that gouging from the previous photo doesn't appear to have gotten worse? I can rock the clutch basket back and forth, but not that much You said there should be about 0.002 clearance between the inner brass bushing and the steel bushing? Perhaps I need some different feeler gauge as I just have flat ones which won't fit into that space.
Notice the cush springs - there are three thicker springs and three thinner ones. They ALL freely rotate in their place. Perhaps this is the source of the tick,tick, ticking sound I hear under load?

 

[650Skull]

Keeping all the information and fix in this thread would have been better than starting a new thread............

If the basket was loose, (information given in the other thread), that is the most likely cause of your problem..........

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

Thanks and sorry about the new thread. I will know next time. Somewhat new to forums. Will also adjust my cam chain again (when the bike is warmed up) per Jim in a different thread, and then set valves again.

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

This is what I should have posted here on this thread, rather than start a new thread. Sorry about the bad form. I'll read those rules.

I recently replaced the clutch on my '74 TX650A. The bike was new to me last summer, the clutch seemed ok but the bike smoked like crazy. I rebuilt the top end over the winter, but didn't touch the clutch. After only a few hundred miles this summer, the clutch was really loud and thrashy sounding under acceleration, so took it apart to find at least 3 steel plates warped. I also found that the main nut holding the entire basket on was not properly torqued down and was too loose. The basket was somewhat wobbly. I had not checked this torque. :-(
In neutral, the engine sounds great - no thrashy bad sounds.
I replaced the steel plates (6) and friction plates (7) and installed new needle bearing and thrust washer. When I replaced the clutch I noticed the gouging shown in the picture. The new clutch worked great but still a ticking sound under acceleration, but much less obvious. I rode it about 100 miles and took it apart again to confirm that the gouging hasn't gotten worse - but still have some filings in the oil. :-( I thought they were aluminum but a magnet picks them up.
The cush springs are all loose and rotate in place but all intact - 3 are thick and 3 are thin. The gouging is right in line with the cush springs.
TwoManyXS1Bs suggested I check the basket's inner brass bushing - it is confirmed 0.002 between steel bushing and brass bushing. All washers are the correct thickness and in the correct order. I haven't done the basket spin test yet, just because I wanted to ask the question about the cush springs first. The gears line up well.
What do you guys think about these cush springs? Could they be the source of the ticking sound under acceleration and is it best for these not to rotate?

Will be doing the baket spin test later today.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... that gouging from the previous photo doesn't appear to have gotten worse?

We've seen that before. Consider that it may have happened sometime in its previous life. An unknown history. Good that you're monitoring it. A risk factor is if any of the swarf ever got into the rightside crank ball-bearing during its life.

Rather long thread, maybe useful for insight.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/high-pitched-mystery-sound.23162/

... Notice the cush springs - there are three thicker springs and three thinner ones. They ALL freely rotate in their place. Perhaps this is the source of the tick,tick, ticking sound I hear under load?

Yeah, those springs don't look right. Strange. Another unknown history.

I replaced the 256 basket on my XS1B with an eBay 447 unit, very good condition low-time parts. My old basket springs could be spun with my thumb, and it would demonstrate the occasional rattle. Replacement basket springs were quite tight, as they should be. It's quiet now.

More clutch flotsam/jetsam, clutch tuneup/trueup.

Starts at post #51.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha-xs650-experimental-clutch.47498/page-3#post-501230

 

[TX650A Van Islander]

Super educational reading - thanks for pointing those out. There is soooo much information on this site, it's a bit overwhelming for a newer guy.
I will be dressing the new steel plates in my clutch with a soft wire wheel. The work you did with the lathe is fantastic.
What is your best recommendation for how to remove the nut on the end of the crankshaft, so I can remove the pinion, and do the basket spin test? I held onto the nut on the rotor while trying the remove the pinion gear/oil pump gear nut, but so tight. Maybe I just need more wheaties!

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...What is your best recommendation for how to remove the nut on the end of the crankshaft, so I can remove the pinion, and do the basket spin test? I held onto the nut on the rotor while trying the remove the pinion gear/oil pump gear nut, but so tight. Maybe I just need more wheaties!

Haha, that's one of those "zipgun" chores.
A shadetree mechanic might suggest jamming a screwdriver into the gearteeth, but I wouldn't do that. It's a 65 ft-lb torque, and pneumatic wrenches work best there...