conundrum

[Noidea]

I recently got my 73 tx650 to run after I got the timing right or so i thought i did. I rode it just locally but it usually would just die when I wouldnt ugas it no gas = dead bike (no idle bascially) it would completely turn off and it leaks a lot of gas im not quite sure where from but the bike would die and i would have to kick it over again only while holding down the throttle would it work. I changed the oil but the bolts broke off in the bottom of the engine case i managed to get them all out except for one and change the oil sometimes it leaks (ill fix that as soon as i can) that was all i really did to it as well as attempt to adjust the points. sooo i wanted to take it to my local bike shop see if they can help me out and while trying to ride over there the bike kept dying and i figured it was'nt worth it for that day cause it seemed like it was gonna rain. I brought it back home and ever since it doesn't want to start back up again. Im in dire need to understand how the points are adjusted i feel like I'e read every post on here about it I line it up between the f mark adjust top points spin it to f mark again then adjust bottom points im never really sure if its aligned correctly but i get as close as i can with my feeler guage. I suspected the timing on the points to be off because when it was running it would misfire and just sound crazy. I cant check it with a timing light cause the bike doesn't run. Sooo in conclusion i guess my question for now is how can i make sure of my timing when the bike isn't running and would that cause a bike not to run? I know i can use an ohm meter which i have as well just not sure how to use it in conjunction with the points when they open or close and the whole backing plate thang Basically if took the points and the plates off how would i reassemble the mechanism back to standing condition again? Also why will the bike only stay on if the throttle is being used. It doesn't idle I've tried adjusting the idle mix screw but that doesn't seem to do anything. I understand my words may seem jumbled and allover the place but any help would be appreciated. I can also answer anything that may sound confusing obviously. I'm sort of lousy and articulating into clear proper sentences but i try my best thanks guys

 

[hmusket]

Here's a link to a manual you can download in PDF format: http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...ttp://www.knucklebusterinc.com/tech/XS650.pdf Check around page 20 for a description on how to set points without running the engine. Read it over to get a basic understanding, and then come back with questions you may have.

 

[hmusket]

As far as the leaking gas, does it leak when you have the petcock turned to off? Is it coming through the air filters? Did it leak all the time, or just when the engine was running?

 

[Noidea]

It doesn't leak when its off only when its on. I thought it was coming from the baseplate right by the gastank but i can't pinpoint exactly where its coming from. It leaks all the time when the petcock is on. I put a piece of paper under the carbs to see where it was coming from i got some drops on the bottom of the right carb but those drops are sneaky they almost seem sporadic. Also I checked out that link I only saw information about the points on page 14 and it says to use a timing light. Im sitting here staring at this bike not quite sure what the next step should be :/ and no it doesnt come through the air filters to answer your question

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Hi Noidea ! I see your still fighting the bike ! sorry to see that ! their good machines they just need a loving touch now and then.....<grin>
....
You can Static time the engine with a trouble light.... with a Points setup.... pull the timing cover off the left lower side and expose the timing marks, and the cover over the points, pull the spark plugs and lay them on the head in the spark plug caps.... clip your trouble light to the wire on the points.... and turn the crank in the direction or normal rotation with the key on... with the trouble light grounded to the engine the light will light up or change when the points Open that should be exactly at the F mark on the crank and the pointer
I'm not exactly positive as to weather the points will simply Light the trouble light or weather the trouble light will already be illumiated
and simply DIM when the F mark is reached(when the points open) I have seen points work in both ways.
but the procedure is the same when the points JUST Barely open the F mark should line up with the crank timing mark.
.....
for your "no idling" that is almost assurdly the carburators being dirty...... the idle air screw adjustment and their passageways are probably full of junk ..... and starting ishues is probably due to dirty choke/enricher passageways being full of junk as well....
again more reading for you ! under the tech section/carburators. if you do pull the carbs off in an attempt to repair it yourself
be prepaired for a technical hassle.... as they are a technical intricut and touchy carburator ! in yourcase I sujest taking it to the shop like you planned..... to have the "NO idle" and gas leak repaired !
.... hope that helps
.....
Bob..........

 

[weekendrider]

Noidea, I suggest you do the repair all yourself. I have yet to find the magical shop with a tech old enough to be familiar with these.
My experience yesterday. I needed a safety inspection to renew my plates. Since my current employment is just a 1/2 mile from a dealership I chose to go there as opposed to the normal establishment.
The dealership required I leave the bike parked in the lot and their tech will drive it into the shop for inspection. Fair nuff I suppose. The 30ish something tech didn't know what a center stand was. He didn't know what a manual petcock was. He didn't know why I had no headlight ('77 with a light kill switch) and he was utterly amazed that you could just barely push the start button and it fired. And he demonstrated the same to the other tech's in the shop "hey guys watch this varoom varoom" several times. Kinda funny, kinda scary.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Indeed ! there is always that , However NoIdea has very Little mechanical experience on anything and is confuzelated very easily
so I thought that sense he was going to take it to the shop anyway......... it might be the best thing for him to do....
normially I wouldn't say that....
Bob.......

 

[gggGary]

I think you need to set down the tools and step back from the bike for a couple of minutes.
To answer your direct question here's a good how to on points, it's genric but there is nothing unusual about the XS650 points ignition. http://www.dansmc.com/bat_coil_ign.htm
That guy is a WEALTH of information, you would do well to look through his whole motorcycle repair course. Because a full overhaul of the carbs will have to be next, see the carb guide in the tech section for details, then the brakes, clutch, steering bearings and swing arm bushings, chain, sprockets, tires etc. etc. etc..
OK now here's my real take. I think you are in deeper than you realize. The distance (in time, money, and self education) between buying a "ran when I parked it" motorcycle and a motorcycle you can get on and go where ever you want every time you head to the garage is HUGE. You really need to decide if you want to be an antique motorcycle owner or not. A 1973 TX650 is an antique. You will not get help or parts at the local dealer.
If you just a want to own a bike that reliably runs sell the XS TX650 and look at a mainstream Japanese motorcycle from the last 20 or 25 years that has words like, new or recent tires, fresh battery carbs cleaned etc. in the ad. A mid size reliable street bike can usually be found for somewhere between 1000 and 2000 USD. You DO need to educate yourself on what ever bike you see available, even many of the newer Japanese bikes have some na$ty secrets in design or parts availability.
Your bike in round numbers needs about 1-200 hours of basic maintenance and about 500 to $1000 in parts. I CAN tell that from here. Is that a place you want to go right now? I own about a dozen XS650's, two of which are currently reliable riders. One more is on the lift with about 50 hours in so far, and another 100 to go before it's ready for the road. The others are waiting their turn.

 

[hmusket]

I apologize on that link, l thought it was the PDF for the Clymers manual. When l opened it on my tablet a copy of my manual opened up. I looked to see if I could find a link to a download, but no luck. Perhaps your local library has a copy or you can pick one up off of Amazon or eBay.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

here's an online free manual from www.knucklebusterinc.com. http://www.knucklebusterinc.com/tech/XS650.pdf
it took me weeks of surching to find it but I finally got it....
....
Bob.........

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Noidea.... gggGary is not being a Killjoy... he is being realistic ! he's correct these o'l machines are not for everyone and a better more reliable bike can be had if you've got the money, the Honda XRL650 single...... I had at one time I got for $800 bucks after a bit of work on it and a new battery it was a very reliable machine indeed.... it was fairly old though and I probably paid too much for it! <grin>
i just wish I had got one with liscnses on it that were current.... that was a mistake ! the California DMV wanted over $500 bucks in back liscnses to get new liscnses on it ! current tags and liscnses it all important ! as you probably already know.
Good luck to ya !
Bob........

 

[hmusket]

Hi Bob,
That's the same link I sent in my first post. It's the Clymers manual that gives the best description on how to set the points up and do the static timing.
Something l read, every expert started out as a beginner.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

indeed it is ! i looked them up and coppied the url...and just posted it because you said it was wrong or something... no biggy
.....didn't mean to confuze anyone....
hmusket..... what's the CBMMA Member thing all about there under your name ? what's that ? "Cannon Ball Mega Mainia Applicant" or something ? hehehehehe !
I love black powder weapons !
Bob.

 

[5twins]

Just a word of caution here - don't leave the key on for long periods of time with the motor not running. That can overheat a coil and burn it out. Turn the key on, do your static check of the timing with a little 12V light quickly, then turn the key off while doing any needed adjustments. Key back on for a short time to check the results.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Thanks 5twins ! I forgot that ! good thinking !
.....
Bob..........

 

[hmusket]

Noidea, check this link out, from the xscafe blog: https://thexscafedotcom.files.wordp...ha-service-manual-1970-1974-pages-101-150.pdf
I use the continuity checker on my multimeter, attaching one probe to a wire coming from the points, the other grounded on the engine. The multimeter makes a sound when there's continuity, silent when there's not. So when the points open no sound. Don't need to have the bike on and worry about the coils.
Bob, from the Yamaha Triples list - CBMMA=Cheap Bastards Motorcycle Mechanics Association

 

[Bob Kelly III]

HAHAHA OK thanks !
.....
Bob........

 

[Noidea]

Hey guys thanks for all the input. In response to gggary i totally get what your saying everybody pretty much told me the same thing including my parents and friends I have saying that its gonna be hard work and im gonna have to devote some time and patience and money and MoRE TIme. To admit at first I didn't really know what i was getting into especially making a mistake of buying something old online cause it looked sweet and expected it to start up and be crisp. Im ready to go down the rabbit hole on this one. I will most likely also buy a bike that i can ride during the season but i plan on fixing this one up to solid riding condition. I have the money and the time that i can put towards this bike. I also really appreciate this website and others like dansmc that help people like me that dont know jackk to knowing at least a little bit and help to gain an understanding on these beast we call machines. This Shits just cool honestly and unique in its own way. Sometimes its frustrating just being solo in my garage with no real people around me to help theres no one in my family or people i know that mess with old bikes. So i figured i could take it down to my local shop so they could give me a helping hand but to my unawarness they didnt even want to deal with it HAaha i also called everyother shop noone wanted anyhting to do with it thats when i realised i was pretty much on my own. BUT im ready for it Ive already gotten as far as i have and put some money and time into this thing to just give up already. Im thinking the key here is just to be patient with it and not rush into things cause i want to ride. Ive read zen and the art of moto maintenance and can say that it put sort of a positive filter on the process of trying to juice this baby back up.

In refrence to the threads and website for theknuckle busters one the only thing i see is when it talks about the points saying . "Ignition timing is checked with a timing light by observing the position of the stationary marks stamped on the stator and the pointer on the generator." i should probably read though the whole thing cause the fact you guys posted the same thing probably just means its me not finiding the whole thing. I also have the manual but the wording it confusing so i usually have to go online. Just thankful i have the internet to ask question how did people back in the day learn anything or get anywhere without the internett?? BOOks?? mind boggling. Im always super siked that people help out on here cant thank the site and people here enough thanks.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

There ya go NOIDEA ! glad to see you've committed yourself to getting it running good ! your young, you learn fast you can do it!
the thing about that bike you have is UNDERSTANDING how it works..... once you understand How and why the points and timing are setup the way they are it makes SENCE to do it that way and the confusion goes away...
same thing with the carburators.... where Most of your problems now lie ( I think) the Carb section here on this site is the best I've seen
anywhere.... it helped me understand the carbs better and that knowledge helped me to know where to look to solve the problems I was having..... so much of the problems I had you are having it's like Da j'avue ! ( or how ever ya spell that french thing!)
so you could probably search my posts and get alot of answers there, Don't be afraid of the electrical aspect of the bike but respect it as you can dammage it fairly easy.... like don't stick a screw driver in the altenator ! HAHAHA !
Feel free to ask if you have questions ! the guys here are the best on the planet ! sometimes their hard to get along with but their human like the rest of us ! if you have been told to do the same thing over and over again and you don't seam to be getting it step back and think Why would they be saying that ? theirs usually a good reason !
Spark , Compression and fuel All in the right order is all there is to it...but it's enough to make people commit their entire lives to the subject......
Good Luck !
Bob......

 

[5twins]

Yes, you're going to have to learn how to do all this stuff yourself because, as you've discovered, not many shops will do it anymore. And if you did find one, it would cost you an arm and a leg, more probably than the bike is worth. None of it is really difficult to do, it's all just sort of becoming a "lost art". Most newer machines don't require all these maintenance things.