Could a washer destroy a bike?

[AussiXS]

I have approached a motocycle mechanic about fixing my first gear woes (with all intention of doing it myself). My 78 Japanese import XS was working fine, I made a few changes, removed tach drive, paint and little bits. 3 weeks after doing all this my bike lunges in first, it's like the gear selection forks aren't gripping then they do, im waiting for it to snap and destroy my engine. Anyway, the mechanic said something that made me think, "what would cause the gear dogs to bend?"

So, I go to my fav forum and found that when you remove the tach drive there is a small washer that falls off the shaft into the RH case. My question is, could this at all be the cause of my issues with first gear?

I just want the answer so when I crack open the engine it's not going to happen again.

 

[Paul Sutton]

If you think you left the washer in then drain the oil, remove right-hand side cover and inspect and remove washer. You can reuse that gasket. If you think the washer may have gone through the wringer then chances are parts of the washer will be picked up on the magnets of the two drain plugs and the bottom oil strainer. Let's hope you are lucky and no major damage.

Perhaps your clutch cable is old and holding on by a couple of wires, this might cause the clunk due to clutch not engaging properly?

 

[Bob Kelly III]

I am not positive but if that washer fell out it should be laying there inside the sideplate when you pull it off...
the lunging in 1st is something else ....i think.... it sounds like 1st gear has a tooth or two missing out of it OR it is not enguaging all the way
bent shifting forks are usually made by user error and stomping on the shift lever ! if you have done this out of flustration of trying to find neutral they may well be bent and not allowing the gear to go into its position all the way....
in any case the clutch side plate needs to come off again .... when you have it off look for that little washer it may well be where it's supposed to be.
good luck...
Bob........

 

[AussiXS]

It's a bit of an odd one. The cable looks fine but I did change the clutch lever which is too tight, so tight it won't allow the adjustment ball bearing thing on the left cover to even go in. The thing is, the rest of the gears are fine, I start it in neutral and ride off on gear 2.

I will take the cover off tomorrow and have a proper check of the engine and the drain magnets and get back to you guys.

I have never taken that cover off, so any tips on what I should be looking out for which would be bad. Or anything to do while it's opened up?

 

[Bob Kelly III]

ok then re adjust the clutch.... how to do that is in the tech section.... don't loose the ball bearing if you take that sideplate off !
that should make the clutch work properly again.
...
as what to look for ...metal pieces laying on the bottom of the side plate.....
just drain the oil pull off the kick starter lever and pull out all the screws around it... take the tach cable off and thump the case with a rubber mallet and pop it loose.... then slide off the cover make sure the kick starter shaft doesn't come with it push it in as the side plate comes off..... and you'll need to remove that foot peg as well....
....
Bob......

 

[Paul Sutton]

Removal of right-hand cover:

Remove the kick start, foot brake pedal and footrest.

Remove the screws or Allen screws that hold the cover in place. I recommend you take photos of where the screws come from, or poke holes in a piece of cardboard in the layout of the cover to hold the screws as you remove them. Warning: There are 3 longer screws that have a copper washer under their heads. These washers stop oil leakage so make sure they go back in the right order.

You may need to tap the cover a couple of times with a rubber mallet to loosen it. Warming: Do not pull the kick start shaft to get the cover off or it will come out of its location and give trouble putting it back in place. Go slowly so as not to tear the gasket because this can be reused (before refitting just wipe oil or grease over the gasket). Take care not to damage the oil seal on the kick starter spline.

When reassembling take care when you put the side cover back on so as not to damage the oil seal on the spline. Take care to put the screws back in evenly tensioned.

Hopefully the washer is still sitting where you left it, but you need to account for it.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

to answer your first question ...could a washer destroy a bike ? Yes of course ! especially loose and rattling around in the lower cases
however it is unlikely..... a metal part is heavy and will likely just lay on the bottom, the oil it's in will dampen it's movements due to vibrations
but moving oil will definately push it around..... in short it'a not worth the gamble !
if it got through the webbings and into the transmition it could be devoured by the gears or simply lock them up....
if it got sucked up into the clutch basket and crank gear which are very close in that area you would probably already know it....
your probabilities are high that the washer didn't fall out in the first place BUT as Paul says you need to account for it when its in question....
if all you did was remove the tach cable and not the tach drive mechinesum you have no worries at all....
....
Bob.........

 

[TimeMachine]

Good morning Easter Sunday , Isn't it necessary to remove the oil filter before attempting to remove the side cover ? This step was not mentioned. Seens it would be necessary but maybe I am not correct ?

 

[weekendrider]

No, but you will want a catch pan under the cover even if your drain plugs have been out a while.

 

[TimeMachine]

Good thanks, I couldn't bear the thought of someone smacking on the side case if it was necessary .. back to coffee.. -RT

 

[retiredgentleman]

AussiXS......................you say you removed the tach drive. I hope you don't mean you removed the oil pump drive gear.
That would mean no oil circulation.

 

[weekendrider]

RT,maybe I didn't understand the question. I assumed you were wondering about excess oil in the filter cover and removing the filter to help drain the volume.
If you were thinking about using the filter cover bolt holes as anchor points to pull the cover off, well I have never done that . . . yet.
Most anything can be used to loosen the gasket seal, a rubber hammer, a piece of wood with something placed over the cover to protect from marring (inner tube, leather, a rag).
I have found it helps removal to knock the grime off the kick starter shaft.

 

[TimeMachine]

Ya, thx I do understand the easy smacking to loosen the gasket. My concern was leaving the oil filter in place . I thought the filter bolt went through the cover and would interfere with the cover removal.

 

[weekendrider]

Ahh, I can "see" your concern now. The answer is no, the filter cover holes are incorporated in the side cover casting.
With RG's post, an illustration may help.

 

[650Skull]

To follow on from RG's query.................I to am wondering if you have reinstalled the Tachometer drive shaft................There is no mention of reinstalling it.

Having a Tachometer on an XS650 is important. If the Tach stops working it is important to stop the bike and make sure the Tack cable has broken. If it hasn't then the oil pump has...........In a round about way, a working Tach on the bike is a safety feature

 

[weekendrider]

I don't see where you get he removed the oil pump shaft. He is wondering about the washer the tach drive shaft rides on. Removing the tach drive isn't hard to do nor does it require bothering the oil pump, the gear that drives the oil pump or even removing the right cover.

 

[650Skull]

For you Wer i removed the reference to the oil pump........It could be considered confusing

 

[650Skull]

Using correct terminology helps to stop any confusion when referencing or talking about parts................We are talking about the Shim, part #8 and the Tachometer Gear, driven, part # 7

 

[AussiXS]

My query was on the shim #8, you can remove the tach drive without taking off the case, that then leaves the shim in the bottom of the engine. So essentially, you do have to take the case off to fully remove it.

I really wish I could solve this mystery and give everyone some answers but, unfortunately, I have stripped two of the Allen heads on the RH side case. It's those pesky cheap Allen keys!

Now, the best ways you get these stripped Allen bolts out of the engine?

 

[TimeMachine]

Are you able to drill the head off with a drill approx the bolt thread diameter ? Then after the side cover is off, vise grips will unscrew the remaining bolt shank ? Good luck.. an ez out is also an option ..