Could a washer destroy a bike?

Would you look at that?! (See picture)

I'll take it apart now and see how 6 goes. Bearing in mind, I do still need my bearings. Pun intended.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4540.JPG
    IMG_4540.JPG
    174.7 KB · Views: 216
Found the video:

The important bit starts at 2.00 minutes - Thank you nightflyer12345 aka I am Carbon.
 
Paul not sure why you have posted the video ? I've already posted a clutch assemby video haven't I ?

Did you actually read my post #34 ?? I have already identified the problem and stated it .in post #]34
'
Either you have too many clutch plates or you have the wrong thickness of plates fitted .
Your clutch hub is projecting way out the front of your clutch basket and should be about flush at rest.

Duplication of posts is just going to lead to confusion (too many cooks ), ;)so I'll leave it to you to carry this forward to a conclusion
 
Our first two replies overlapped, but I did read everything. The video I posted from nightflyer12345 is the one where he discovers someone had added too many friction plates which is the issue here. This video does show reassembly as well, but that it is not the point from where I am standing, my point is that this issue regarding too many clutch plates being added is not unique.
 
AussieXS...... pay special attention to putting the clutch basket back on in the right sequance and when you get that needle bearing oil it and put it between the washers in the proper order....check those washers for ware as well .... like an 1/8" in from the center hole , if its chewed up replace it as well..... no wonder it didn't work right , without the bearing in there !
probably one of those things discovered on the work bench after all is assembled and ready to be tested things... been there done that before (blush)
with the clutch basket at the proper distance and the correct number of plates in there the clutch push rod should reach the worm gear properly
that wiggle you did to the worm gear said something is definately Wrong it shouldn't flop around like that ! but getting that clutch basket set up properly should cure the problems with adjusting it on the other side.
if you wind up taking out a clutch disk take out the thinnest one you can find ! that one in the photo looked too thin on the one sideboth sides should be as thick as the back side.... so it's been slipping quite a bit it seams....
Well done Peanut & Paul !
......
Bob.........
 
https://goo.gl/photos/8MaAsXRvr7piKfZf6

This is the new video of what it looks like to have 6 plates in, I think my bike is like yours peanut and has 7, I'll check the VIN plate tomorrow and see exactly. But as you can see in the 24 second video, 6 plates leaves too much space.

Now for the confusing part!

I took my clutch apart and found that it did in fact have the racer bearings but what was missing is the small shim, which is number 9 in previous diagram. It also included an extra 1mm washer that didn't appear in the diagram at all. So I have no shim but gained a thick washer. Maybe that small extra thickness has made the issue?

What is doing my head in is that it worked fine, and as I rode a couple of times and I had to keep adjusting the worm until it finally it wouldn't go in at all. Now why doesn't it work, the setup hasn't changed.
 
As a ticking items off the maybe list; inspect the worm, the plastic part has been known to crack, this causes the lever to spread the plastic instead of pushing in the clutch, that's a really high force area, there's a lot of mechanical advantage built in, especially if the lever has been using the clutch pack to try to separate the bolted on RH cover from the engine casing.
 
check the clutch basket for warn divits in the slots, the plates can ware slots into the basket causing them to STICK in their present position. Those slots that the clutch disks slid down into should be smooth....
pull the generator sideplate off again and take a close up picture of the worm gear and cable connection from the inside just like you took it off
just rotate it and lean it up a bit and take a picture of it ...that will tell us a bunch
.....others may tell you that that thicker washer needs to be replaced by the proper one made for it but as long as the ckutch basket turns on it's shaft FREELY and there is no slop in and out and the center shaft turns freely as well I think you'll be fine
but remember the clutch pressure plate has to be at a spisific distance for your clutch lever to operate it if the clutch pressure plate ( the part the springs hold in) sticks out past the basket it's wrong ! and the clutch lever cannot activate it because it's too far out...... look at it and figure out how this thing works...stop guessing ! it's not rocket science ! you can figure it out ...! ... the crank turns the basket which turns the transmition shaft
when the clutch lever is pulled in the plates can seperate and allow the transmition to not turn with the basket any more.... that's the clutch
if the clutch pressure plate (the one with the springs on it) isn't moving far enough it will not release the transmition shaft. that means find out why it's not moving the clutch pressure plate.....
so before assembly of the clutch plates check and make darn sure the center bucket can turn independant of the outer basket ! it has to move easily
........ the clutch is fairly simple, its the WAY they do it that stumps people .....
good luck to ya ! keep at it you'll figure it out!
....
Bob.........
 
If your clutch takes 7 friction plates, and it appears the answer may be yes, then when all the plates are in place the last friction plate should not easily fall out, there should be space to hold it with maybe 3 - 5mm spare left. If you check that video I uploaded at 4 minutes 10 seconds where nightflyer12345 removes the pressure plate, notice how the first friction plate nearly falls out because the clutch assembly is overloaded with an extra friction + metal plate. If the fit with 7 friction plates seems comfortable them I can only assume there is an assembly issue behind the big nut.
 
h

Now for the confusing part!

I took my clutch apart and found that it did in fact have the racer bearings but what was missing is the small shim, which is number 9 in previous diagram. It also included an extra 1mm washer that didn't appear in the diagram at all. So I have no shim but gained a thick washer. Maybe that small extra thickness has made the issue?
.

componant #9 in my sequence diagram is not a washer it is a lock tab to keep the lock nut from coming loose .

If your extra washer is the same as component # 1 in my diagram then it will be an extra shim that has been put in to space the clutch assembly off the crankcase to prevent it rubbing. It would fit between washer # 1 & # 2 in my diagram before the basket is fitted
It is 1mm thick ....35mm OD and 25mm ID and identical to the shims used to sit the valve springs on.

If you watch my video you'll see me mention measuring the gap at the back of the basket to the crankcase.
If there is insufficient gap then the clutch basket will bind on the crankcase and create a rubbing groove.
 
Our first two replies overlapped, but I did read everything. The video I posted from nightflyer12345 is the one where he discovers someone had added too many friction plates which is the issue here. This video does show reassembly as well, but that it is not the point from where I am standing, my point is that this issue regarding too many clutch plates being added is not unique.

Paul we do not know for certain that this issue is due to fitting too many friction plates .

Its quite possible that the problem is due to other issues like a 6x plate basket is fitted or friction plates are too thick or the steel plates are not in tolerance, wrong number or thickness of washers fitted or the clutch basket has been modified to take 6 plates..... there are lots of other possibilities and at the moment there is simply too little information and not enough understanding.
Introducing videos of other owners clutch issues could confuse the issue if we haven't established the problem yet.

As we cannot physically check the clutch for ourselves we need more information to determine the problem .

My suggestion would be to ask AussiXS to use a vernier gauge to measure the thickness of every single friction and steel plate and list them so that we can get an accurate measurement of the whole clutch pack.

I would also request that AussiXS tells us exactly what number sequence he has fitted his clutch components compared to my assembly sequence diagram so that we can see what is missing or incorrectly assembled.
lets get some facts
 
Peanut, I agree! Hopefully we can get an exact Model/Year to search the microfiche for an exploded diagram also. Did you get out yesterday, it was fab weather over here and surprisingly warm. Tuesday's weather may be bit of a shock for us! I am thinking of removing my XS head very soon because I have a valve that is not rotating as it should but will wait until I take a compression reading this week just in case I need to make any other corrections at the same time.
 
.
Did you get out yesterday, it was fab weather over here and surprisingly warm.

no such luck unfortunately . We are waiting for all that snow up North to come down and hit us :)

I've bought yet another battery for the bike as last years battery has sulphated too badly and won't hold a charge . I think I need to check the regulator is working properly as it looks like the battery is getting overcharged.
 
Morning folks!

Below is my link for videos of my clutch disassembly and also showing my worm gear. There was grinding on my worm gear that may be of concern but how I got it, I don't know.

Also is a pic of my clutch basket, it looks pretty bad in the pic but it doesn't feel too crazy rough. How would I smooth that out?

Thoughts gentlemen?

Ps, twomanyxs1bs, love the post haha

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B3tSQlhhBRz9eVFPeUF1QUZRQms
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4554.JPG
    IMG_4554.JPG
    179.6 KB · Views: 222
The clutch hub looks like it wasn't fully seated. Not enuff spline engagement, not enuff threads past the Belleville washer.

The worm isn't fully seated. The grease shield is bent from contact with the case's oil gallery protrusion.
 
It looks to me like the very first washer that you removed should not be there.

There should be only 1x small thin washer and a tabbed lock washer (missing ?) on the outside under the lock nut.

Look at my diagram . Follow the assembly sequence from #1 to #15 in the same order . All the correct thicknesses are marked on the diagram so you cannot go wrong.

You need a vernier caliper to measure almost everything on the bike they are only $20 or so for a cheap one . Without it you cannot be sure if anything is within tolerance or the correct thickness.

Put your camera down on a pile of books or something before you film so that it is steady Have you no light there at all ? if not use a table lamp or torch or something to help us see .
 
Last edited:
Here is the only clutch parts diagram that Yamaha produced that has the washer either side of the thrust bearing.............. Make sure that concave washer/spring goes back the right way.............
Engine Overhaul17 17 3 copy 7 .jpg

Those dogs on the Primary drive gear Basket look ok.....if they are bad a light file is the go, not to much so the Friction plates start to slop around.......one of the best things you can do to the steel clutch plates is to give the sharp edge a slight file. .....One side of the plate is rounded and the other will have a sharp edge.............Yes tedious but evey bit helps to make the clutch easier to work
 
Last edited:
Back
Top