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Crabby's Build

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by CrabbyCustoms, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Crabby, there's no short answer. Unless you are very rich and in a big hurry, it looks a bit daft to rush out and buy a load of tools you might never need.

    For one thing, it depends on what jobs you are going to do. If you wait until you get inside the motor, you will have a better idea of that. Secondly, there are good practical work-rounds for a lot of these tools. My Haynes manual is quite good at suggesting alternatives to factory tools.

    An alternator puller is something I have found generally useful. I wouldn't bother with a piston pin puller - usually, the pins will push out easily, possibly using a suitable-size box spanner, if you warm the piston first and remember to support it to avoid side loads on the con rod.

    Cam chain splitter? The one I bought bent on first use. If you are going to replace the cam chain anyway, then judicious use of an angle grinder will grind down the pin heads. Loads of threads on this forum.

    Take a look at my build thread, in particular this http://www.xs650.com/threads/hello-from-new-member.55057/page-9#post-601957 where Mailman shows the valve spring compressor he bought. I bought a similar one for a lot less than the one you are looking at.

    Don't think about valve guide installer/remover unless you find the guides are worn. And it's the sort of job I'd probably take to an expert.

    I suggest take your time, see what needs doing, look for work-rounds, see what XSives here have done & used, and buy a few tools you need as you go along.

    ** Since posting this, I see I've crossed in the post with Jim. **
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
    Jim likes this.
  2. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Amazing. Thanks Jim, that was very helpful I just ordered all of it from multiple sources (Ebay, Amazon and XS Direct (Mike's XS in Canada) ).
  3. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Thanks Raymondo that's great advice, I must admit I do get ahead of myself sometimes :) The tools that I did purchase were very reasonably priced so no loss if if they sit around for awhile. I just want to make sure I'm prepared and always moving forward. Thanks again!
    Raymond and Jim like this.
  4. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    I removed the cylinder head today and unfortunately the cam appears very rusty. I'm assuming it too pitted. When it comes to removing the rust is using my media blaster with a light media such as soda possible? or should i use 000 steel wool?

    Also the cam lobe contacting surface looks like it might have wear, anyone know if this is an acceptable amount?

    As well the cam chain has overspray of silver paint on it, wierdly it's not actually dry and seems to easily rub off with my fingers? If I can remove the paint could I still keep the chain? or needs to be replaced? Thanks.

    January 14, 2020-31.jpg January 14, 2020-19.jpg January 14, 2020-22.jpg January 14, 2020-23.jpg January 14, 2020-26.jpg January 14, 2020-11.jpg

    Attached Files:

  5. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    IMHO your cam is toast. The lobs are hardened after being ground. The hardening only goes a few thousands deep. I would bet the rust has ate through the hardening. It could be reground and re-hardened. Would cost way more than it's worth.
    Paint won't hurt the cam chain. Cam chains are not that expensive. If it has low miles on it and had the tension has been kept in adjustment it may be OK. I rebuilt the top end on a engine and didn't replace the chain. I wish I had as it was stretched more than I thought. Hasn't caused a problem yet but it will get replaced soon.
    Jim and CrabbyCustoms like this.
  6. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    I figured as much and I guess I need to continue digger deeper into the engine? What did you think of the Cam Lobe contacting pads on the rocker arms? still OK? Thanks for your help.
  7. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    Would need to run a finger nail over them to feel if they are gouged or rough. The faces on them are hardened also.
    Hopefully others express their thoughts.
    Raymond, CrabbyCustoms and Jim like this.
  8. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    As you go deeper into the motor ("breaking" the cam chain - securing it with some wire, so it doesn't fall in, removing the top end, checking the rods for side-play, etc. See Jim's fantastic voyage into a top-end rebuild in the Tech section), and before you scrap that cam, try this old trick (whuddya got to lose?) - a loosely crumpled ball of aluminum foil and light (do they have 3-In-1 oil at Canadian Tire?) machine oil. Scrub all the rusty stuff with it. I don't know about "hard chrome", but it works amazing on regular chrome.... :twocents:
    CrabbyCustoms and Jim like this.
  9. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Agreed. If you can feel those ridges, I wouldn't use 'em. As for the cam, I wouldn't use it. You have a spare engine don't you? See how that cam looks.
    The use of blue RTV for building an engine makes me distrust anything else the PO did to it.
    GLJ, CrabbyCustoms and 59Tebo like this.
  10. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    :cussing: :wtf: :banghead: :yikes:
    wannabridin, CrabbyCustoms and Jim like this.
  11. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    My drive chain tensioners arrived to today and when I tried to install my back wheel I realized that I'm missing a part? I think It's Hub dust cover 256-25367-00-00? I just checked with XS650 Direct and they have the oil seal (#22 on the diagram) but not the dust cover (#24). Just wanted to confirm I'm correct about it being only the hub I'm missing?

    Just curious where other Canadian members are purchasing their Yamaha parts from? my local shop said that Yamaha no longer stocks the part. I found this on Ebay but the shipping's a bit much.

    Thanks! _1430134.jpg _1430135.jpg Screen Shot 2020-01-16 at 11.37.28 AM.png Screen Shot 2020-01-16 at 11.45.41 AM.png
    59Tebo likes this.
  12. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    I think you are also missing #20. The dust cover is pressed onto it.
    gggGary, 59Tebo and CrabbyCustoms like this.
  13. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Thanks GLJ! Found and ordered! I appreciate the catch you just saved me some cash! Screen Shot 2020-01-16 at 2.09.49 PM.png
    59Tebo and GLJ like this.
  14. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    My spacer and dust cover arrived and I attempted to install my rear wheel only to realize that it doesn't fit under the fender? again the PO strikes! He told me that the fender was installed using the tire as a guide (an Avon MK II 5.00 / seem like really big tires!) but it definitely doesn't fit. I emailed Jason Hetfield (Jumpstreet Customs) who fabbed the fender originally and he confirmed that the PO had not provided a tire at the time of creation, so another lie from the PO.

    After searching the site I've concluded that my '78 wire wheels are:
    Front 3.50 H-19 -4PR or 100/90-19
    Rear 4.00 H18-4PR or 110/90-18

    Can anyone confirm this?

    Also does anyone know of a smaller/thinner/lower profile (hopefully vintage looking) tire that I can January 31, 2020-34.jpg squeeze under my fender?

    Thanks, Marc.
    Raymond and gggGary like this.
  15. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    Hi Marc,
    Could it be what you need is a fender that fits the tire? While there are some variations in tires of the same size between different brands (height and width), they'd all fit under the proper sized fender. That, and changing tire size could affect traction, handling, and speed (smaller diameter travels less per revolution, leading to more RPMs at the same relative speed... :twocents:
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
    CrabbyCustoms and Raymond like this.
  16. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Thanks 59Tebo, I think that changing the fender may end up being the solution to my problem. I have ordered a new Dunlop D404 rear tire in hopes of it having a lower profile but I may end up with a new fender. Thanks.
  17. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    Yesterday I removed the cylinder head/ Cylinder and Valves. It was exciting and pretty straight forward. As it may have been rebuilt at one time the pistons and rings appear to be in good shape? One cylinder wall looked really nice but the other has a substantial amount of corrosion, I'm guessing that honing it would not be sufficient to solve the problem? The valves appeared to be in good shape as well as the valves seats, no pitting or scratches.

    Since I'm planning on changing the cam chain I guess I need to remove the pistons and continue in to the crankcase?

    Feeling like a real mechanic!

    I also purchased a very cheap valve spring compressor from ebay and it worked extremely well.

    Thanks! February 01, 2020-4.jpg February 01, 2020-19.jpg February 01, 2020-9.jpg February 01, 2020-26.jpg February 02, 2020-60.jpg February 02, 2020-56.jpg February 02, 2020-61.jpg
    GLJ, 59Tebo, Raymond and 1 other person like this.
  18. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    Hmmmmm.... maybe a little fine steel wool on that "scratchy" looking cylinder? Usually, when these bikes sit for a long time, one cylinder winds up "wet" and the one... not. A compression test would've been insightful towards determining the overall "health" of the motor. I hate to say it, but if you're this far into the motor, you may want to think about maybe a second, or third-over (depending on how deep the corrosion is) cylinder job. That way, you'll have "cleaned house" and won't have to deal with it again for a loooooong time. As the wise man recently said (I can't remember who it was, but wiser words were never spoken!) "...If you have to take the motor apart to get at it, replace it...", or something to that effect... One thing's for sure, with your resources and dedication, that's gonna be one rippin' motor! :rock:
    P.S. I picked up an ancient valve spring compressor for cars and trucks. It wasn't ideal, but adequate for the Xs. I still have all the fingers I started with... :whistle:
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    CrabbyCustoms, GLJ and Jim like this.
  19. CrabbyCustoms

    CrabbyCustoms XS650 Enthusiast XS650.com Supporter

    I think that's the route to go. I found a shop nearby that can machine them. I'm going to tear into the backup engine I have, just to get an idea on what those cylinders look like? Thanks for the info!
  20. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    If one of those liners is good, swapping liners is easy to do. Read here.
    59Tebo likes this.

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