Engine Rephase Rebuild Thread

[Tim of DO THE TON]

BTW - another little tip I just discovered.

Regarding TDC for the right cylinder. On the right side of the cam, there is a locating pin for the advance mechanism. It is oriented the same way as the notch on the sprocket carrier, i.e. in stock form, when the engine is at TDC, it points straight up. This lets you confirm the cam is oriented correctly in an engine without seeing the sprocket carrier - put the crank at TDC using the rotor marks, and if that hole is pointing straight up, the cam is installed per factory spec.

Now, given the right side is cut and rotated forward, you can't use that hole to confirm the cam is oriented with the crank when putting the crank at TDC, as the hole has been turned forward as part of the rephase. BUT, when the right side is at TDC, the hole will in fact be pointed skyward.

So, for eyeballing it, your right side is at TDC when that hole is pointed straight up.

Not an alternative to a piston-stop method of finding TDC with a degree wheel (which is what I did) but now that I have, and I've marked the rotor with the right-side TDC, I can see that little locating hole pointed straight up when right-side TDC is aligned. Just peace of mind.

 

[alfredo]

Short update. Finally had time to get out in the garage today. Got the head torn down, blasted and valves recut. Went through and walked all the bolts and bolt holes with dies and taps. Was able to get the whole top end on and some other various bits and pieces. Still not all the way there yet, but a lot closer than I was.

One thing that I haven't mentioned is that I have been slowly rewiring the bike. Will get pics of that soon. As for now, check these out and let me know what you think:

One more thing that I forgot to mention. Took a chance, a big one. My daughter wanted to help. Let her install the PMA all by herself. She read Hughs instructions (his blog) and flew solo the entire way. Torque wrench and all. She did a great job and the PMA looks amazing.

Thanks again for all the help. Hope to get this thing up and running soon!

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

I have to ask, and I made the mistake myself - did you install the little metal deflector part on the underside of the cylinder head back by the breather?

Reason I ask is I don't see it in the above pic of the head.

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

Sorry - just realized we already talked about this - did you ever locate one or going to run without? I'd guess 1/2 of the XS's out there that have had the heads off don't have it. Will be interesting to see if my old engine has one when I tear it down for cleaning after putting the new one in.

 

[alfredo]

I have to ask, and I made the mistake myself - did you install the little metal deflector part on the underside of the cylinder head back by the breather?

Reason I ask is I don't see it in the above pic of the head.

Yep. Squeezed it in pre-install. Also, thanks for the tip on the right TDC. Sounds like a neat trick.

 

[alfredo]

Sorry - just realized we already talked about this - did you ever locate one or going to run without? I'd guess 1/2 of the XS's out there that have had the heads off don't have it. Will be interesting to see if my old engine has one when I tear it down for cleaning after putting the new one in.

Got one from a local buddy of the forum: SimpleBob.

 

[suxelp]

Hello all,

I've just recently had a local machine shop rephase my crank and camshaft and thought I would share my joys with you... I had given them instructions on what I wanted done and even drew it out, right side of crank advanced 83 degrees (3 notches) and the right side of the camshaft 41.4 degrees.

After I picked up the parts, got them home and eyballed the peices I could imediatly tell that they had advanced the right side of the crank and the left side of the camshaft and not only that I could tell by the factory grind on the camshaft that it was awfully rotated much more than 41.5 degrees, I assumed that they just completely ignored my instructions and the fact that there is a 2:1 ratio and did what ever they wanted.

So I took the cam back to them and in the meantime installed the crank and proceeded to get the motor back together as far as I could.

when i finally got the cam back everything looked fine... i had installed it with the head just snugged and the cams seemed to follow the pistons as they should.

So I got the motor all tightened up, got er back in the frame, Installed the new ignition (an NWZ-1 i think it was) and she fired right up... well the left side fired right up and the right side was poooooo. Cleaned up the carbs, double checked valve clearences etc... and went through this a few times before I finally marked up the rotar with TDC for each side as well as intake opening and closing. This is when i immediaty started to worry as things did not look well in Kansas. I took a straight on photo of this and imported into CAD and low and behold.... The TDC had an offset of 110 degrees and intake also followed suite and were in the correct possition for this....

So basically not only did the machine shop goof it up in the beginning but knew they did and did not say ought to me about it...

Anyway i decided to work with what i had and rigged up the ignition to work with a 110 degree offset. It fires up nicely, in my dining room anyway haha so have not taken her out on the road but she sounds nice with both sides firing. I've decided to try it on the road this way till the winter time and then go to 83 degrees...

thats me little story anyway

Cheers fellas... and gals

 

[sseres]

Short update. Finally had time to get out in the garage today. Got the head torn down, blasted and valves recut.

What was it that made you decide that you needed to have the valves recut? And, what exactly was involved in having them recut?

Also, how/where did you blast the block?

Thanks!

 

[alfredo]

What was it that made you decide that you needed to have the valves recut? And, what exactly was involved in having them recut?

Also, how/where did you blast the block?

Thanks!

Recut the valves and did the head because I took it all apart to glass bead it. Figured since some of the glass might has marked the mating surface for the valves, I went ahead and recut them.

I am Carbon has posted on a video on how to do the valves I think. Search around for it. You cut them just like you would for any other motor. The clymer has pretty good instructions if you can't find that video.

Also, in a harbor freight blast cabinet in my garage. I am using glass bead from Grainger. Still working great after cleaning many things.

Hope that helps.

 

[sseres]

can you say anything about the blast cabinet? Like where you got it, cost, equipment needed to have the ability to do this one's self? Thanks!

 

[avenue]

now that I have my workshop space back, I'm ready to start wrenching again. I've been following your build closely as we're at similar points in our builds. Keep it up!

My engine is back in the frame, top end torqued. The valves are rebuilt but not anywhere close to being within spec right now. I thought I did all my TDC readings right when installing the cam but I'm now second guessing my order of operations after reading up on your build journal. My next step, I think, is to install the advancer rod and pamco277 then go on to setting the valve clearances.

A few questions,

Right now, the left cylinder is at TDC with the cam lobe "V" (left side) pointing upward. the sprocket notch and dot are in their respective places, 12o'clock and in line with the machined matting surface. How does one know which stroke each cylinder is about to enter if the valves are not anywhere close to being within spec?

My project has been buried in temp. storage and I have not touched it in weeks. Now that the shop is organized, I'm sitting here scratching my head, wondering if I've missed something or I'm simply over thinking things after a short hiatus.

any and all guidance is welcomed,
avenue.

 

[avenue]

any updates?

and, according to Tim of the Ton's earlier postings, I think my order of operations were correct for my 277 reassembly (using the left cylinder at TDC when riveting my cam chain back together, being the step in question). But, a little reassurance/clarification wouldn't hurt.

thanks,
avenue.

 

[alfredo]

can you say anything about the blast cabinet? Like where you got it, cost, equipment needed to have the ability to do this one's self? Thanks!

Check this out for info on the blast cabinet: http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15163

any updates?

and, according to Tim of the Ton's earlier postings, I think my order of operations were correct for my 277 reassembly (using the left cylinder at TDC when riveting my cam chain back together, being the step in question). But, a little reassurance/clarification wouldn't hurt.

thanks,
avenue.

Thanks for prodding me Avenue. I have been slowly working on the bike. It's back in the frame and mounted tightly to it in all places except the top. I am going to leave the top mounts off for the first 20 or so miles to make it easier to retorque. Then they will go in place.

My father came over and help me put it back in the frame a couple of weekends ago. I have been trying to get out to the garage as much as I can, but work and life has been keeping me fairly thin. Seeing everyone out there on the road surely gets to me though. I want to be out there with them!

I had to order new filters for the bike (oil) and got them in recently. Filled the bike up and with oil for the first time in a long time and have been kicking it a few times. Feels good to hear it plop in rephased order.

Things left to do:

• finish wiring the bike
• wire 277 pamco
• find a place to mount the pamco giant coils and mount them
• find, order and install a horn button
• install the carbs and uni's
• finish the wiring in the electrical box under the seat
• make a new solo headlight mount from angle iron
• install the rear wheel and such
• cross fingers, toes, eyes and tongue then test fire

Only two photos for now, but will get more tonight to post tomorrow.

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

Looking great - I'm just putting my tools away after having adjusted my tappets and checked the timing on mine after ~200 miles.

So far so good. I have found I am running my Pamco pretty much fully retarded to get to the timing marks. Good on both left and right - perhaps still a tiny bit advanced but as close as I can get it. Going to see if there's any play in the magnet wheel on the advance rod to see if I can swing it a little more retarded.

Aside from that everything is working as it should on both left and right.

To confirm, I did install my cam as per the factory specs using TDC on the unmodified left side. My cam was done by MrRiggs and I found I didn't have to degree the sprocket at all. Of course that could be the cause of my fully retarded ignition situation but not worth pulling the engine and trying to perfect it by pressing the sprocket off and back on again.

I was looking at your pics and noted it doesn't look like you installed your starter gear cross shaft in the lower case. I did, and I'm working towards putting the e-start back on. My right leg is getting tired with this race cam, stiff springs, higher compression etc. Not bad when things are running perfectly - just started it cold in a couple kicks wearing sneakers, but when things are fussy, it gets painful. A couple of times my kickstart lever disengaged and I went into free fall hyperextending my knee. 2x in 4 minuted a week ago and it's just feeling good now.

That shouldn't be happening no question, but even if it wasn't, the occasional stall at a light in Toronto traffic is enough to make me want the e-start.

I'm installing a Ballistic 12 cell 410cca battery to fire it. Should be plenty

 

[alfredo]

Looking great - I'm just putting my tools away after having adjusted my tappets and checked the timing on mine after ~200 miles.

So far so good. I have found I am running my Pamco pretty much fully retarded to get to the timing marks. Good on both left and right - perhaps still a tiny bit advanced but as close as I can get it. Going to see if there's any play in the magnet wheel on the advance rod to see if I can swing it a little more retarded.

Aside from that everything is working as it should on both left and right.

To confirm, I did install my cam as per the factory specs using TDC on the unmodified left side. My cam was done by MrRiggs and I found I didn't have to degree the sprocket at all. Of course that could be the cause of my fully retarded ignition situation but not worth pulling the engine and trying to perfect it by pressing the sprocket off and back on again.

I was looking at your pics and noted it doesn't look like you installed your starter gear cross shaft in the lower case. I did, and I'm working towards putting the e-start back on. My right leg is getting tired with this race cam, stiff springs, higher compression etc. Not bad when things are running perfectly - just started it cold in a couple kicks wearing sneakers, but when things are fussy, it gets painful. A couple of times my kickstart lever disengaged and I went into free fall hyperextending my knee. 2x in 4 minuted a week ago and it's just feeling good now.

That shouldn't be happening no question, but even if it wasn't, the occasional stall at a light in Toronto traffic is enough to make me want the e-start.

I'm installing a Ballistic 12 cell 410cca battery to fire it. Should be plenty

Sounds great! I know what you mean about the kickstart, but I just don't want to get all that back in. The kick doesn't bother me as much unless it's kicking back. Then its pain time. Maybe some day I will put it back on.

How are the vibrations and top speeds? Can you report back in with that for me?

 

[Tim of DO THE TON]

I'd say better than stock - much better. Less bouncing at idle and I can do 70mph no problems now. Keep in mind my bike is a comfort disaster. Clipons, no real seat padding and the seat is sitting more or less on the frame, rearsets with no rubber bushings (aluminum pegs too). So I'm totally bolted hard to the frame.

I'm running a 17/30 sprocket set with no problems in the city. I've been running that for a couple years with the stock engine too. With the taller 5th gear in, theoretically it's geared for 150mph at 8000rpm in 5th. I've probably hit 100 at this point but I haven't pushed my luck. Saving my 9 lives for Bonneville.

 

[alfredo]

Got the carbs, back wheel, fender and sissy bar back on. Also, did some more work on the wiring. Much more wiring to go and I am in a holding pattern for a pamco plate. But, it's back to being a 'roller' at least. Pushed it out of the garage so it could get some sun. First time in a long time. Very eager to ride this thing again.

 

[sseres]

Recut the valves and did the head because I took it all apart to glass bead it. Figured since some of the glass might has marked the mating surface for the valves, I went ahead and recut them.

Sorry to bring up an old topic in this thread but I'm currently in a valves state o mind. Did you take the valves to be ground and if so how much, if you don't mind, did you pay? Now that you did it, do you have any clue at this point if it was worth e grind, or would just a lapping have been enough?

 

[alfredo]

Sorry to bring up an old topic in this thread but I'm currently in a valves state o mind. Did you take the valves to be ground and if so how much, if you don't mind, did you pay? Now that you did it, do you have any clue at this point if it was worth e grind, or would just a lapping have been enough?

I did not cut, just lapped. Since I took it all apart and blasted it in my cabinet. I didn't trust that I didn't mess up the sealing surface, so a little grinding to ensure fit. Also, soaked the valves in pinesol to clean. Worked great.

 

[alfredo]

So, life got reaaaaaaal busy all of a sudden and I have neglected my freedom machine for too long. I spent some time in the garage this weekend and got it all buttoned up. All except the coil mount. I am going to take the bike to my buddies shop end of this week and have him fab up a creative mount for these green monster coils. Then, comes the test fire

It's all together. Except for the coils. Here's a shot of her in the sun:

Thanks for the patience everyone and I hope to report back with some good news in the next few days/week.