False Neutrals and Slipping out of Gear

heckienawjoe

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Hey guys,

Recently my XS has started having some shifting issues. The main thing is that when upshifting (usually from 3-4, but sometimes also from 2-3) the bike goes into a false neutral. Sometimes upshifting from the neutral will bring it into the gear it should have been in (i.e. 3-neutral-4), but sometimes it skips the correct gear and goes to the next (i.e. 3-neutral-5).

Also I have been experiencing slipping out of gear. Usually I will be riding around in 2nd and it will just pop out into neutral.

I think there also might be something wrong with the shifter because downshifting doesn't work as its supposed to. The gears don't always respond to my foot, and sometimes I have to press down varying amounts of times with varying amounts of force to get down to 1 (like, I will shift down and it will just stay in the same gear, so I have to shift down again). This also happens on upshifts occasionally as I will shift up with normal amount of force and when I release the clutch lever it will still be in the same gear (another immediate upshift usually does the trick).

So, sorry for the novel, I just wanted to get all the details out there. I'm not really a gearhead so I don't know what's going on. Can anybody tell me what this sounds like and what I need to do to fix it? Or at least a couple of things to check?

Thanks in advance, you guys are great!
 
have you tried adjusting the clutch screw thingie on the left side of the motor? if it's too loose it's hard as fuck to shift. also an oil change can't hurt, right? 20w50 valvoline i used in mine until two hours ago when it pissed me off for good.
 
yeah i've played with the adjustment and I changed the oil with 20W50 in April so I dunno if thats it. The thing with the adjustment is that it was perfect for the 1st 45 mins of the ride and then on the trip back it just started having problems so I'll try again but I know what it feels like when it gets tough to shift and I need to adjust. Thanks tho.
 
heck, I have had a similiar problem for a couple years now =/ the bike will randomly slip out of second into a 'false neutral'. Another very rare issue is that when shifting down from 2-1 the gear shifter will get jammed and I have to pull up really hard to free it. I have done clutch adjustment a ton and it has no effect. I have been told that the only way to fix it is to split the cases and get into the transmission, worn dogs or maybe gear selector? I plan on doing just that this winter (got a used transmission off ebay for $70). But until then I just pray that the tranny doesn't totally shit out during riding season!
 
I think I would adjust the clutch one more time, and check to be SURE the shift lever bolt is tight. Maybe pull the LH cover and look around for anything obvious bent shift shaft, a piece of fence wire wrapped around it you know weird stuff. How does it seem to shift with the engine off, just rocking it in the driveway?
 
This doesn't sound like a clutch problem to me. I'll bet that, if you pull the right side cover off (be prepared to lose about a quart of oil), you'll find that little spring on the shift pawl mechanism either broken or missing. MikesXS has new ones. There's also an adjustment that can be made to the shift pawl. The Clymer's book (and probably the Haynes) shows how to make the adjustments.

I had problems with my '81 that were almost identical to what you're describing. Turns out all it was was that little spring. Once I replaced it, missed shifts and false neutrals were naught but a pleasantly fading memory.
 
- or if the spring is still there the shift claw may need adjusting

gearslector.jpg
 
I think I would adjust the clutch one more time, and check to be SURE the shift lever bolt is tight. Maybe pull the LH cover and look around for anything obvious bent shift shaft, a piece of fence wire wrapped around it you know weird stuff. How does it seem to shift with the engine off, just rocking it in the driveway?

Thanks, I plan on doing that this weekend.

I'll bet that, if you pull the right side cover off (be prepared to lose about a quart of oil), you'll find that little spring on the shift pawl mechanism either broken or missing.

Ok, I was searching on some other forums (I think I found it on an XS11 forum) and I had heard about this. I'll check it out this weekend.

And thanks inxs for that diagram. These all sound like simple enough things to check, and it sounds like people have experienced these exact symptoms before. I, like pandora, am wary of actually getting into the trans at least until winter.

I'll investigate tomorrow or sunday and post back with the diagnosis...Thanks everyone for their quick and helpful responses!
 
The other thing that might be worth checking is the end float (left to right play) of the shift shaft. If this is too great it can cause shifting problems. There is a circlip which retains the shaft under the left case and washers can be inserted behind this to take up excessive play. I could only get four gears most of the time on my recently revived roadster until I did this (might have been a washer missing left out by a PO).
 
Hey guys, haven't had a chance to check things out yet (I know some of you are waiting on a fix). I have spent the last week and a half buying a bike for my Dad who just got his license. Ended up with a nice 82 Honda CM450C in good shape.

I'll probably look at things this week/next week.
 
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I think it sounds like bent shift forks. Need the split the cases to inspect and fix.
On getting your Dad a bike, I just picked up an 80 Honda CM400E. Nice little bike. Lot of fun. It weighs 370 lbs. Very nimble. No hi-way cruiser but a good bike.
 
The other thing that might be worth checking is the end float (left to right play) of the shift shaft. If this is too great it can cause shifting problems. There is a circlip which retains the shaft under the left case and washers can be inserted behind this to take up excessive play. I could only get four gears most of the time on my recently revived roadster until I did this (might have been a washer missing left out by a PO).

took the LH cover off last night. nothing really awry except that i did notice some free play as you described from the shaft connected to the shifter foot pedal. it was probably about 1/3" maybe a bit less.

I wasn't able to get the RH cover off. I thought i got all 10 screws out but the damn thing wouldnt budge even after i hit it with stuff haha. im gonna try again soon but ive been super busy lately...

thanks again for all the input.
 
Re. the free play;
Not sure what the specified maximum allowable play is but wouldn't think it's a lot. My other XS has no appreciable play, whereas the bike I had trouble with shifting had a lot more (but probably less than 1/4"). I ran through the gears while rotating the back wheel (with the bike on the centrestand) and found I could get all gears OK while pulling out on the shaft, but if the shaft was moved inward it would usually refuse to change from 4th to 5th gear. I sanded a suitable sized washer and placed on the shaft behind the circlip to take up the play and it's been OK since.

BTW i've found the RH covers can be pigs to get off if they've been 'glued on' with some types of sealant - best to soak with penetrating oil and work with a rubber mallet over a bit of time. I wouldn't go too heavy though, I would guess it would break with a bit too much enthusiasm!
 

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Good to hear. I'll be pulling my cover off this weekend. Im hoping mine is the same issue to avoid splitting the cases.
 
I know this is an old thread, but it just may have answered my questions about my 81 HS.... 3-4 shift almost always jumps to a "false neutral" shift up to 5th and right back down to 4th and it engages fine.
 
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