Ok I stand corrected. It’s obviously metric because the threads match. It was supposed to be equivalent to grade 8 as far as strength goes. I guess I just used the term
Generically to mean a strong bolt
Generically to mean a strong bolt
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First highway run; engine bogs at 60
- Thread starter tzimmerm
- Start date
No problemo - just didn't want you to have an issue later. It is a likely an ISO grade 9.8 or something like that.
Good points, guyz. I had to glue mine...
http://www.xs650.com/threads/jbm-industries-bs38-diaphragms-fail.51656/
plunger was flush, and I could barely see it sticking out while it pulsated. Then I backed it out just a little in case tightening the cap tightened it down a bit, and replaced the cap. It didnt seem to make any difference. It is mostly noticable when decelerating or cruising. It’s making me worry that if I keep riding it the way it is I will ruin the engine. The bike still has some issues that I am wanting to blame on the carbs. When it’s idling it will drop down for a second or two, then back up. Also, sometimes if I try to give it a quick blip of the throttle, it will choke and die, like it’s not getting enough fuel or too much air. All of these symptoms warrent replacing the carb boots and almost certainly rebuilding the carbs, but I have read the “carb guide”, and I am certain I don’t want to mess with all that. I am not properly equipped to take on such a daunting task, so I am planning on taking the carbs off and sending them to Rick at oldskoolcarbs for a rebuild. It won’t hurt anything, that’s for sure. I did confirm this evening that the oil leak I mentioned when I first got the bike is actually not coming from the head, but the seals behind the advance and points. I took pictures this evening. After I removed the covers, I tried starting the bike and it sounded funny. I realized I forgot to reinstall the left side spark plug!!! I quickly turned it off and reinstalled it, then restarted. It ran normal after that. Please tell Me I didnt ruin anything. Could all the oil on the points be causing my problem? It doesnt make sense to me that it would only affect the engine at 50-70 and not lower rpm’s. I read a little in the forums; am I correct in understanding that I can replace both those seals
Without removing the engine/ any major disassembly? Am I going to have to reset the timing? I am thinking I will start with the carb rebuild, put the fresh carbs back on the bike with new rubber manifolds/gaskets from mikes, and then see how it runs. If it can reach highway speeds after that, then I will probably wait a few months to replace those seals while I save up for a Pamco electronic ignition with e-advance, the all-in-one model, and replace the seals then. If the carbs DON’T solve my problem, I am really going to lose it. I do not have the time or resources to wrench on an old bike all the time. I bought this one because I really thought it was all Solid. What a fool. Anyone want to buy a stock blue ‘77 with 17,000 miles, new tires, new cables, rebuilt front brake, new filters, nice chrome gauges and rebuilt carbs for 3500.00? Cause that’s what it’s going for if I can’t ride it when I get these carbs back. I’ll even throw in the highway bar, rear seat rest, and all the original parts including the original bars that I have taken off. Anything I’ve taken off the bike I have saved. UPDATE—— Here are links to videos I took last night to capture the engine noise.
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What became of the 3rd gear high-speed test?
I've been trying it up the long hill to our apartment complex most every time I head home from a ride. Theres not enough length on the road to go much past 50-55 though. It will make it there in 3rd no problem though. I don’t really have anywhere I can get up to 65-75 other than the interstate, and I havent wanted to try it with the engine clatter. Like I mentioned, I’m on probation for moving violations; one more moving violation before Feb of 19 and my license gets suspended, so I’m not risking trying to go 65-70 on the highway. I’m also not too keen on test riding a dodgy bike on I-80 knowing I will probably get stuck around 50-55 after the 3 times I’ve done it. If it’s not raining later this evening, I’ll try mounting my phone to the bars and take a video of the gauges while I do the test so you can see for yourself before I take the carbs off to send them to rick.
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Honestly, I'm not hearing anything really alarming in those videos. This is a rather old, crude motor design and does make a bit more noise when running than most modern bikes. Running 40wt. as opposed to 50wt. oil will produce more topend clatter too. Loose valves or cam chain are the usual culprits if the noise is excessive, but like I said, yours doesn't seem to be. On the valves, if the tips of the adjuster screws are all beat up (which is common), it can be difficult to measure accurate clearances. If that's the case, you may want to try a snug .006" (Ex.) and .003" (In.). Tighten the adjuster so the feeler gauge blade is a very tight fit in there, difficult to slide.
Yeah... I tend to agree with that. I didn't hear anything unusual there.... just the normal clatter from a 40yr. old engine.
If I had to guess, I'd say the ringing is a 'resonance ring' from the cooling fins. Pretty common for air cooled engines... and another "nothing to see here" sound. Yamaha used to mold rubber bits into the fins on the old RD's. It helped... but they still rang.
Look at the cross section of a cooling fin........
Then look at the cross section of a "tuning fork."
Notice the similarity? They'll both "ring" at a certain frequency. For your engine, that resonant frequency happens at about 25-35 mph. Shift gears to change the engine rpm and the "ring" will change....
So if I wanted to test this theory to confirm that this IS the source of the ringing, I could dampen the vibration off the fins by wrapping something, say a wet towel or something that wouldnt melt or catch fire, around the fins and go for a quick ride and see if I can hear a difference? Hmmmm.
This theory (about the fins acting as a tuning fork type thing causing excessive noise), has nothing to do with he problem you have had and what this thread was trying to achieve. Its distracting from the real issue and just thinking about wrapping the engine in a towel and going for a run to see if the noise will be quieter, (well it would wouldn't it), is off the planet to say the least.......no offense intended
That being said, and to bring this back on track......The last couple of pics you posted could have a lot to do with the first 2 pics you posted on Page 1. ..........The oil leaking problem........
The cam seals are leaking a fair amount of oil into the Points and Advance weight area, this will be running down the fins onto the side-cases and when going for a run, will be driven all over the barrels onto the engine case behind the barrels.
Points area........If oil, (pic shows this), is getting on the points and is soaking the wires and connections in the points area, it is going to act as a conductor and your spark is going to track onto other parts and this in turn is going to make the spark weak and the points will be dirty so they will not be delivering the full spark to the plug.........=........weak spark ....=.....poor ignition..=..poor combustion......and this can or could be a course of the bike stopping in mid ride and or lack of power
The pics of your spark plugs arn't bad as far as bad goes. Could be better but for a base to start with they are ok and shouldn't be a course for concern
New cam seals are a must before any more work is done to the bike.........you can work on rebuilding the engine, carbs, re- torquing the head, changing sprockets, but if those seals are not replaced the points are just going to be covered i oil again......Replac the Cam seals. If then the problem persists the points are the next thing to be sorted/cleaned/replaced..........this has to be done before anything else is done.........to eliminate the points area as the problem..........plugs are next......
.then start to look at the carbs/timing or electrical coils. these last 2 points, carbs/Coils are 2 different tracks but each are/could be related to your problem and can/do show the same symptoms...........coil is the shortest rout to a conclusion so i would be looking at that next and then the carbs............
That being said, and to bring this back on track......The last couple of pics you posted could have a lot to do with the first 2 pics you posted on Page 1. ..........The oil leaking problem........
The cam seals are leaking a fair amount of oil into the Points and Advance weight area, this will be running down the fins onto the side-cases and when going for a run, will be driven all over the barrels onto the engine case behind the barrels.
Points area........If oil, (pic shows this), is getting on the points and is soaking the wires and connections in the points area, it is going to act as a conductor and your spark is going to track onto other parts and this in turn is going to make the spark weak and the points will be dirty so they will not be delivering the full spark to the plug.........=........weak spark ....=.....poor ignition..=..poor combustion......and this can or could be a course of the bike stopping in mid ride and or lack of power
The pics of your spark plugs arn't bad as far as bad goes. Could be better but for a base to start with they are ok and shouldn't be a course for concern
New cam seals are a must before any more work is done to the bike.........you can work on rebuilding the engine, carbs, re- torquing the head, changing sprockets, but if those seals are not replaced the points are just going to be covered i oil again......Replac the Cam seals. If then the problem persists the points are the next thing to be sorted/cleaned/replaced..........this has to be done before anything else is done.........to eliminate the points area as the problem..........plugs are next......
.then start to look at the carbs/timing or electrical coils. these last 2 points, carbs/Coils are 2 different tracks but each are/could be related to your problem and can/do show the same symptoms...........coil is the shortest rout to a conclusion so i would be looking at that next and then the carbs............
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If you have to ask if the engine has to come out to remove the cm seals you need to get a manual, and read in conjunction with questions and answers from the forum............No the engine doesn't need to come out............But.........the only way to know for sure is to read the manual and check up to see if i am giving you the correct information.............X referencing is the best way to learn.......... Not just about weather the information given is true or no, but also to check to see if the person giving the advice knows what they are talking about.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/cam-seals.31201/ In this thread it shows how to do it with a vice.......read all posts.
Post #4 from JimD's top end thread............ He uses a press..............some people don't have all the tools.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-top-end-buildup.52041/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/cam-seals.31201/ In this thread it shows how to do it with a vice.......read all posts.
Post #4 from JimD's top end thread............ He uses a press..............some people don't have all the tools.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-top-end-buildup.52041/
Your best bet is to get an entire seal kit... you'll eventually use all of them. look on ebay. there's lots of choices out there. Here's the kit I used....
You'll also need the o-rings and gaskets for those housings. Ebay and Amazon have em.... generally cheaper than Mikes. No, you don't need to remove the engine... yes you'll need to redo the timing. You'll need a bench vise at minimum to press the seals out and in.
You'll also need the o-rings and gaskets for those housings. Ebay and Amazon have em.... generally cheaper than Mikes. No, you don't need to remove the engine... yes you'll need to redo the timing. You'll need a bench vise at minimum to press the seals out and in.
Also use the search feature........
I put in the Question..........".How to replace cam shaft oil seals" http://www.xs650.com/search/16335582/?q=camshaft+oil+seal+replacment&o=relevance Start to help your self and you will have less frustration, especially when so much, and sidetracked, different information is posted in your thread..............
Three good links from the link i posted. All have good info. and on where to get some parts.....
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-with-camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.48891/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.37436/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.37436/
As one of these links suggests...........make marks before removing parts so reassembly will be on the money, (or close as), so timing should be a minimum effort.........Not doing this will mean asking another 50 questions on how to set up the timing................a little thought beforehand will save a lot of questions, (and frustration), later.
I'll let you do the search for the removal and dismantling of the advance weights...........if you have trouble finding the info ask and i will post up some links.
..
I put in the Question..........".How to replace cam shaft oil seals" http://www.xs650.com/search/16335582/?q=camshaft+oil+seal+replacment&o=relevance Start to help your self and you will have less frustration, especially when so much, and sidetracked, different information is posted in your thread..............
Three good links from the link i posted. All have good info. and on where to get some parts.....
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-with-camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.48891/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.37436/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/camshaft-oil-seal-replacement.37436/
As one of these links suggests...........make marks before removing parts so reassembly will be on the money, (or close as), so timing should be a minimum effort.........Not doing this will mean asking another 50 questions on how to set up the timing................a little thought beforehand will save a lot of questions, (and frustration), later.
I'll let you do the search for the removal and dismantling of the advance weights...........if you have trouble finding the info ask and i will post up some links.
..
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tzimmerm, you've gotten some fine advice above. Get manuals, do your homework then consult; don't chase "ghost" noises; troubleshoot by elimination; and finally, use Tour Max seals made by ARS in Japan (they happen to be the original equipment manufacturer) and distributed by K&L, and avoid the Chiwanese crap that a certain well known vendor peddles. Keep at it; the gremlins may take a round or two, but if you eat your pain and keep punching you'll win the fight.
Thanks for all the links and advice everyone. I really do appreciate it. I’m not COMPLETELY helpless, and I DO have a manual. I’ve skimmed through the clymer I bought though, and it basically only tells you how to completely dissassemble the engine and re-assemble it. I assumed from my general knowledge that it could be done without taking the engine out, but wanted to make sure I wasnt overlooking something. Doing little jobs like this with the engine in the bike is not something the manual really tells you how to do, and though I’ve read the section on timing and tappet adjustments several times, the clymer is nowhere near as clear or educational as this forum.
With that said, Looking over the links you provided it looks like I shouldnt have much trouble with the seals, but I have to admit the points and electrical in general are intimidating. My chopper had a PAMCO already installed when I bought it, and I have read through a lot of the posts here about it. It seems like most everyone agrees the pamco is reliable and perhaps more dependable (set and forget) than the mechanical advance and points. Would my plan to just replace the mechanical advance and points with the Pamco /e-advance be a smart move? I also find I have a LOT less time and “extra” money than I seemed to have a year or so ago when I was trying to finish up the chop, so it’s just really frustrating thinking about all the additional expenses and time that this is requring already. In truth I probably really can’t afford the bike, but I’m in too deep now, so I guess it’s going to be a labor of love.
With that said, Looking over the links you provided it looks like I shouldnt have much trouble with the seals, but I have to admit the points and electrical in general are intimidating. My chopper had a PAMCO already installed when I bought it, and I have read through a lot of the posts here about it. It seems like most everyone agrees the pamco is reliable and perhaps more dependable (set and forget) than the mechanical advance and points. Would my plan to just replace the mechanical advance and points with the Pamco /e-advance be a smart move? I also find I have a LOT less time and “extra” money than I seemed to have a year or so ago when I was trying to finish up the chop, so it’s just really frustrating thinking about all the additional expenses and time that this is requring already. In truth I probably really can’t afford the bike, but I’m in too deep now, so I guess it’s going to be a labor of love.
