TimeMachine
SeventyEighte
Amazing how you put that all together Pete ! And I don't mean Lucille , I mean that whole Article !! Fine Work 
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Forking around with Lucille
- Thread starter MaxPete
- Start date
Yeah, MaxPete well above and beyond. I asked for a couple of snapshots and dimensions and received a Broadway production. 
Yes, very well done. The only thing I can add is to increase the oil amount.
I use the 6 inch down method. This method requires you to remove the springs, collapse the fork until it bottoms out. Pour in 8 ounces of the oil you want to use, Pump the forks up and down a few times to get the oil circulated through all the inner parts. Leave collapsed.
Now you need a special tool. I use my Mighty Vac and a foot or so clear tubing. Measure up 6 inches from one end of the clear hose, put a zip tie around the tube at the 6 inch mark. Now attach the other end of the hose to the Mighty Vac, Slip the 6 inch end down in the fork tube till the zip tie is at the top of the fork tube. This should reach down into the oil. If not add more oil till it does. Once you have the tube in place pump the Mighty Vac to draw out the excess oil, it will draw the oil down to 6 inches down the tube.
Remove tool and install spring and cap.
You can use most any tubing to build this tool. You can use any vacuum source, even sucking it by mouth.
This 6 inch Down Method increases the oil level and decreasing the air space above the oil. This works kinda as a mild air shock. It decreases brake dive.
Fork oil doesn't cost much and is easy to change you can experiment with different weights of oil to find what feels best to you.
Leo
I use the 6 inch down method. This method requires you to remove the springs, collapse the fork until it bottoms out. Pour in 8 ounces of the oil you want to use, Pump the forks up and down a few times to get the oil circulated through all the inner parts. Leave collapsed.
Now you need a special tool. I use my Mighty Vac and a foot or so clear tubing. Measure up 6 inches from one end of the clear hose, put a zip tie around the tube at the 6 inch mark. Now attach the other end of the hose to the Mighty Vac, Slip the 6 inch end down in the fork tube till the zip tie is at the top of the fork tube. This should reach down into the oil. If not add more oil till it does. Once you have the tube in place pump the Mighty Vac to draw out the excess oil, it will draw the oil down to 6 inches down the tube.
Remove tool and install spring and cap.
You can use most any tubing to build this tool. You can use any vacuum source, even sucking it by mouth.
This 6 inch Down Method increases the oil level and decreasing the air space above the oil. This works kinda as a mild air shock. It decreases brake dive.
Fork oil doesn't cost much and is easy to change you can experiment with different weights of oil to find what feels best to you.
Leo
The revised fork seal remover pic. less is more, keep the amount of tire iron above the vice small, use a piece of scrap aluminum to protect the fork tube from the tire iron edges. Lube is your friend doesn't matter much as long as it's wet, silicone spray, WD, rust buster, motor oil, lever against the seal a bit turn the tube, repeat, when it starts to break loose lube again, the seal will come right out. It helps to have two small picks on that retainer wire clip one to move it in another to work it up. As always some of the stainless strip from a junk windshield wiper bent and filed to the right shape is very useful to make little pry tools.
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Yes, protecting the top of the lower while prying the old seal out was about the only thing I was going to mention. I have a "special tool" made up for this. It's nothing more than a small piece of aluminum angle with a "finger" cut and bent down .....
It sits all by itself right on top of the fork leg, no need to hold it .....
Yes, I clamp the lower upright in a vice and pry the seal out. I've not tried Gary's tire iron method yet but it looks like a good one. I have another "special tool" to pry with. It's nothing more than a modified big old screwdriver. It's square shank keeps it from rolling and I ground the tip round so it won't gouge the fork lower. It hasn't met a fork seal yet it couldn't remove .....
And speaking of tough seals to remove, the worst I ever encountered were in a kid's powder coated lowers. Yep, he had them coated with the seals still in there. Baking them in a 400° oven really makes them stick, I don't recommend it, lol.
It sits all by itself right on top of the fork leg, no need to hold it .....
Yes, I clamp the lower upright in a vice and pry the seal out. I've not tried Gary's tire iron method yet but it looks like a good one. I have another "special tool" to pry with. It's nothing more than a modified big old screwdriver. It's square shank keeps it from rolling and I ground the tip round so it won't gouge the fork lower. It hasn't met a fork seal yet it couldn't remove .....
And speaking of tough seals to remove, the worst I ever encountered were in a kid's powder coated lowers. Yep, he had them coated with the seals still in there. Baking them in a 400° oven really makes them stick, I don't recommend it, lol.
These are SUPERB inputs to the article XSLeo, Gary and 5Twins! Many thanks indeed!
The next time I am at my computer - I will add them!
Cheers,
Pete
PS - that little fork top edge protector tool is absolutely brilliant - it should be produced and marketed.
The next time I am at my computer - I will add them!
Cheers,
Pete
PS - that little fork top edge protector tool is absolutely brilliant - it should be produced and marketed.
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
he lower fork s
SPRINGS & THINGS
View attachment 101916
Basically, I found that due to the much stiffer new spring, there was NO WAY I could get that new spring into the fork with the spacer (distance tube) - so I simply left the spacer out. The total length of the old spring plus that spacer was nearly the same as the new spring - and as noted, the new spring is much stiffer than the old linear wound unit.
- Stock OEM spring free length : 18-1/2 - 19"
- OLD springs rem. from forks (2017): 17-3/4"
- Stock spacer (aka "Distance Tube"): 2-3/8"
- NEW progressively wound springs: 19-5/8"
Once you have the new spring installed, pull the inner fork tube "up" and your fork should look like the photo below.
View attachment 101917
Finally, you will add the fork oil. We could get into a huge long "oil" debate here- but I hate that sort of thing and so here is what I noted from my research on forks and fork oil:
So - taking all of that into account, plus the fact that I am...ahem...perhaps, not as svelte as I once was...I made some choices - and I will live with them for now. The under-sprung issue is looked after by the new stiffer spring. The manual suggests 155cc of either 10W30 motor oil or simple 10W fork oil - and so I poured 160cc of 20W Lucas fork oil into my forks to increase the damping coefficient.
- the XS650 forks are felt to be under-damped (too bouncy) and under-sprung (too soft);
- many people have added more oil and thicker (more viscous) oil to the forks;
- some people have modified their damper rods (the Minton Mods) - but there is little or no data on doing this to 34mm forks from what I can tell. All of that work appeared to be on later 35mm forks which are a different design.
My initial riding shows that this works well: the bike feels much steadier and corners better with no bobbing and weaving. I am happy and if I want to change the oil later - that would be a simple 30-60 minute job.
Once the fork oil is in place (I used a kitchen measuring cup - but do not tell Mrs. MaxPete), you set that spring seat / top hat looking washer on the top of the spring (with the little protruding part facing down into the spring) and then push down on the spring with the fork cap while turning the fork tube until the threads in the cap start to engage. I would keep screwing the cap in by hand until you cannot turn it anymore - and then finish tightening the fork cap once the legs are back on the bike and you can secure them with the lower (ONLY) triple-tree pinch bolts.
NOTE: I suggest doing this "by-hand" so that if you get it started cross-threaded, you don't power-on and wreck the components.
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Mr Max, I also have a 76 and am now doing the front seals and springs.
You had stated your springs reduced in length from original specs down to 17 3/4, mine went further and now sit at only 16 5/8, thus I will also be replacing springs.
What springs did you buy to achieve the desired ride?
You had stated your springs reduced in length from original specs down to 17 3/4, mine went further and now sit at only 16 5/8, thus I will also be replacing springs.
What springs did you buy to achieve the desired ride?
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Just a little note on all these sacked out fork springs we seem to encounter and my theory as to the cause. I'm a big fan of centerstands and use them whenever my bikes are parked for more than just a short time. But, many people don't use them. They'll store the bike all winter or maybe even for years parked on the sidestand. This puts more weight on the forks and compresses them more, and I think this is a big contributor to the sacked spring problem.
again..two of the most fun items on these XS’s are the centerstand, and the kick starter. Classic cool and purposeful
XS’s not only stand proud on their centerstand but it is then much easier to give em the one over inspection of condition quickly.
Hi Norton7d:
I just bought the '76-applicable (NOTE: the '76 and earlier bikes had 34 mm NOT 35 mm diameter forks) progressive springs from the Canadian version of MikesXS (the catalogue entry for the parts is below):
Progressive Front Fork Springs 1974-76 XS650 TX650 34mm forks
$65.98
IN STOCK
Part
27-1087
Qty
ADD TO MY WISH LIST
EMAIL
I just bought the '76-applicable (NOTE: the '76 and earlier bikes had 34 mm NOT 35 mm diameter forks) progressive springs from the Canadian version of MikesXS (the catalogue entry for the parts is below):
Progressive Front Fork Springs 1974-76 XS650 TX650 34mm forks
$65.98
IN STOCK
Part
27-1087
Qty
ADD TO MY WISH LIST
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Once again. 5T's wisdom speaks loud and clear. I agree this is how springs go south, otherwise how could me and Pete be over an inch difference while my bike has not been in service for a few years.
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Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Maybe as a one time tool you could file down a broom handle to a appropriate shape and then hammer it in. Then flip the fork over stand it on the protruding wood with weight and hit the Allen head bolt with an impact or even better air impact?
Did this for years as needed a couple times as a youngster. It worked .
Yup - the socket mod or the broom handle was my next play but my pal really wanted to practice his TIG welding skills so I wound up with a "Snap-On" version of the '76 XS650 fork tool.
Actually, that clevis idea should work really well too Norton7d.
Pete
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Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
I will also try cutting up a socket, Pete can i get poctures of your tool from the front view.
The socket used needs to be small enough its perimeter dosnt go "around" the desired points of interior contact.
The socket used needs to be small enough its perimeter dosnt go "around" the desired points of interior contact.
Here is another photo Norton - does it show the detail you need? The photo shows the tool (below) mating with the damper rod.
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Yea, thats good but ultimately the final tool will be determined by gentle trial and error, no sharp edges!
Norton7d
XS650 Junkie
Based on Pete's pic of the actual dampening rod, the head of the rod which needs to be secured and held is only about 18 - 20 mm at its widest point, considerimg the entry max width of a tool needs to be about 23 mm to slide down the tube, and the head of the rod is reduced from the max width of the tube. Knowing that, the OD od the socket I use will be less than 18mm, give or take? I like will go down to 16 or so knowing I will be unable to determine with certainty the tool is cemtered.
