Frame issues

SkavenDC

SkavenDC

Just Some Guy With a Bike
Messages
105
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Maryland
So. I have decided to post this up on here and see what the guru's say.

I have a frame on a bike that was badly damaged and has been repaired at this point. It is however not 100%. When you insert the swingarm bolt from right to left (damaged side), the bolt goes in up to where the threads stop. Vertically it is perfect, just a tad forward. When the bolt is inserted left (damaged side) to right, it hits low and to the rear. Pictures below.

I have installed both the bolt by itself (with a BFH) and the bolt with the swingarm. I have taken some measurements with a tap measure and everything seems good. It seems that the left side of the frame where the bolt goes through is now in the right spot, but seems slightly askew.

This weekend, I was going to do some more measuring using a plumb bob. With my frame level, I was going to mark the backbone on a huge piece of cardboard and extend that past the rear of the bike. Without moving the frame, I was gonna measure both sides of the swingarm and see how it measures to the backbone line. Probably do some other measurements as well.

I had a local shop take a look at it. They said it would probably cost more to fix it properly then it would cost to buy another frame/title. They recommended that I drill the holes out ever so slightly (2/1000 or so) or even some work with a Dremel and a sanding drum.

The question is, **ASSUMING** the frame is straight, what would the negative affects of running this frame as is, or does careful work with a Dremel even sound like a good idea?

Pictures. First is the original damage, second is left side of frame (damaged side) and the third is the right side.

Plate_zps6a3f92f8.jpg


109D9A77-1B4D-4B19-B8F3-B70FC68A1FA0_zpsvs5f3iuu.jpg


D308C590-0A5F-4E29-9930-81788C007E89_zpssnue0ham.jpg
 
Man that's some bad shit. The stress on the rest of the frame when that happened must have been horrific.

I wouldn't trust that weld.

If i was doing the job to fix the problem in pic 1...........I would have Cut across the top and got the broken peice to reline back up. Weld the join then grind flat and weld a piece of metal over the join welding each edge.

If i absolutely had to use that frame i would cut out the old weld and redo/re-line the broken metal and redo as per paragraph above.

Remember it's your life hanging on that part.
 
That should have been clearanced as mentioned above then at least tack welded, if not fully welded, with the swingarm and bolt in place, if a jig was not available. At this point I don't really see a solution besides cutting it apart again and doing that.
 
I'd have to go along with what they told you at the shop. How hard could it be to come up with an XS650 frame? It isn't exactly a rare bike, is it? XS-2?
 
650Skull said:
Remember it's your life hanging on that part.
Click to expand...

Truer words have never been typed. Sometime you ask questions and you really don't like the answers, but sometimes you need to hear them anyway.

**I am not a welder and only know what I was told...I have picked up more knowledge since this**

The damaged area was cut off the bike and all the bad welds were ground off. What you don't see in picture 1 is the really, really bad weld job on the other side (picture below). He said it was really hard welds and must have been some sort of industrial/structural stuff used. Once cleaned up, there was such a gap on the outside, that he found a piece of flat steel to weld in as a backer to provide support in the area.

Now, my swing arm bolt did not survive tear down and he forgot to bring one (not that I asked him too). I also forgot the swing arm, but there was no bolt anyway. We found a piece of steel of the same diameter that we had to straighten. We used this piece to position the mount. Did some measuring and tacked it in place. During some "fine adjustments" the substitute bolt broke, but it was believed that it was in position. Welded it the rest of the way.

Ultimately I would like to cut the area off again and using a jig or at least a brace of some sort have it re-welded in it's proper position. I do understand that this area is probably under tremendous stress. As stated though, welding is not part of my toolbox yet and spending close to $1000 to have it fixed by the shop (yea...I was quoted that) isn't in the budget right now.

I don't want to half-ass this job (this IS the frame), but also don't want this to be an endless money pit. I'm not exactly swimming in it right now. Safety first and foremost, but if this is completely unusable, then I will save funds for a different project and move on.

DSCN2836_zps9fa71d7e.jpg
 
Buy another frame. Cheaper, even if you had to get is shipped half way round the country.

Odd statement about the weld being so hard! Any weld properly done will never split or come apart under stress. The metal it is welded to will.
 
650Skull said:
Buy another frame. Cheaper, even if you had to get is shipped half way round the country.

Odd statement about the weld being so hard! Any weld properly done will never split or come apart under stress. The metal it is welded to will.
Click to expand...

The weld didn't split. It was never welded on the back. Couldn't see that on the bike while it was all put together. Didn't pay enough attention to what I did see when I picked it up.

He just made the comment about it being hard, because it was very hard to grind off. The weld itself was a lot harder (denser???) than the metal of the frame. Again. Just what I was told.
 
Last edited:
Hi Skaven,
that frame is f**ked.
If Maryland's DMV makes a problem about swapping in another frame perhaps your most economic action is a hardtail conversion?
 
SkavenDC said:
The weld didn't split.

He just made the comment about it being hard, because it was very hard to grind off. The weld itself was a lot harder (denser???) than the metal of the frame. Again. Just what I was told.
Click to expand...

My point about his "hard weld" comment was....... i would wounder why a welder would make such a comment when anyone with welding experience will know that weld is always harder than the metal welded on. If a welder said that to me i would be questioning his qualifications/experience
 
To do a proper weld repair, you pretty much have to strip the frame bare. I know just enough to be dangerous, but wouldn't you want to normalize it after welding, based upon where the repair is? After all the trouble, I expect finding a replacement frame might be easier.
 
No need to normalize. Not that it would be easy to do in this case anyhow considering that no one knows exactly what grade and makeup of steel these frames were made out of anyhow.

That repair, to be done correcrly, should have had a jig in the works to make sure the axle plates and the frame were in line properly, and that the holes for the pivot were concentric.

Doesn't look like a lack of weld at the repair area...just cold with a good deal of undercut.
 
Under cut at the tow of the weld is the weakest weld link.
A downhill weld will be easier, but concave might as well not even be there. Some of the guys at work view welding a glue metal together. Big mistake .
Do it right or do it twice. In this case, couldd be your life. Cut all that crap out, get a swing arm in there with a proper bolt, and fix it let it cool naturally( no water), wait till it's cold, then get it cherry red to normalize the HAZ, and hard stone, barrel sander, whatever to get the swing arm bolt straight. If any porosity, dig it out and do it again.
 
You can't prescribe a normalization procedure to an unknown material with an unknown carbon content. Every material is different.

If normalization were an issue with these frames people would be dying left and right from welding hardtails on.

The only way to fix that right is to jig it while repairing. The concentricity of the bores left and right is critical. Without a fixture you're gonna have a hell of a time if this isn't the kind of work you do regularly.

Undercut is one thing but you can have a percentage per a given length of weld at a certain depth. The part that worries me is the ropey cold lapped areas. My comment about lack of weld and undercut was a bad attempt at sarcasm.

FWIW I wouldn't repair this if someone brought it to my shop. It's a liability issue because I wouldn't be able to say exactly what the previous repairman did/didn't do.
 

Similar threads

toglhot
Frame trueness.
Replies
0
Views
253
toglhot
toglhot
toglhot
Yamaha frame building.
Replies
2
Views
287
Max Midnight
Max Midnight
Bewarethemoon
Swingarm Assembly
Replies
2
Views
782
Bewarethemoon
Bewarethemoon
Squishman
Left and Right chain adjuster
2
Replies
22
Views
345
Squishman
Squishman
Shelby
So close... leftover parts match
Replies
9
Views
228
Shelby
Shelby
Back
Top