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Gasket Kit Price

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by littlebill31, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    Used OE and Vesrah composite head gaskets usually mic out around .043." .An Athena gasket won't compress anywhere close to .017", and no matter how you look at it you'll wind up raising the deck more than .010" with one of those. Bottom line: Athena uses 1.5 mm. (.060") material because it's off-the-rack stuff and they can avoid the expense of nonstandard stock.

    5twins, the rest of the gaskets in the Vesrah set will be made to OE Yamaha spec as well--thicker and tougher than that slick green stuff you get from Athena. I suspect that Vesrah may have been the OE manufacturer.
     
    zodc, Mailman, YamadudeXS650C and 3 others like this.
  2. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    grizld1 you are 100% correct on how the thickness of the head gasket can effect the engine. If you are building a high performance engine it's definitely a factor to consider. I have a Athena head gasket in my engine and I cannot complain about how it runs. It's got good bottom end torque and very good mid-range power. With the fuel we run today slightly less compression and a slight retard in cam timing may not be the worst thing in the world. Problem I have with the other Athena gaskets is they are green. The average Joe building the average engine on a budget isn't going to notice a difference.
     
    YamadudeXS650C likes this.
  3. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    I'm not gonna get into a discussion of theoretical outcomes, GLJ. If you're happy with what's in your motor, that's what counts. But factually, not theoretically, I've run slightly north of 10:1 static compression ratio with 77.5 mm. pistons in an XS650D motor on premium pump gas (91 to 93 octane) with no trace of detonation or other issues. Bottom line: you can buy a Japanese product made to Japanese specs or you can buy a European product made to a price point.
     
    zodc, YamadudeXS650C and GLJ like this.
  4. 650trader

    650trader XS650 Enthusiast

    Vesrah has Never been an oem supplier. I have received defective Vesrah gaskets.
    Athena does not use substandard materials as they ARE the oem supplier in Europe.
    If you buy a gasket set in Europe you will get a Yamaha set from Athena as they are the oem supplier.
    European xs650's are almost all 533 engines which ARE different. different rod with huge big
    end that's oiled thru the crank not the front gallery, different pistons etc., etc.
    grizld you are speaking about things you do not know about !
     
  5. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

  6. cafetools

    cafetools XS650 Addict

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    I'll chime in. After rebuilding the head with a Athena head gasket it's hard to keep the front end down. On the freeway going about 70 when I roll on the throttle a little I keep spinning my back tire. I can't get any traction. My tire just spins. :)
     
    Mailman, zodc, Jim and 2 others like this.
  7. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Icy roads up there?

    I have the same problem on slime-coated low-water crossings...
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
    lakeview, Mailman, Jim and 3 others like this.
  8. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    It's a cheap rhetorical strategy to erroneously attribute a statement to someone in order to attack it. I didn't assert that Vesrah was the original supplier to Yamaha, I stated that I suspected it based on comparison of factory parts found in the many engines I've had apart to parts I've found in Vesrah kits.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
    Mailman, zodc, gggGary and 2 others like this.
  9. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I wonder if different OEM suppliers account for the changes in advertised CR over the years.
     
    gggGary and Jim like this.
  10. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Say.... ain't there a name for that? :sneaky:

    strawman.gif
     
    Mailman, YamadudeXS650C and grizld1 like this.
  11. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    TJ, I've measured out head gaskets for thickness from all models sold in the US from an XS1 that was early enough to have needle bearing wristpins, to the last year of production. Results are consistent with Yamaha's published specs. BTW I wound up with a gasket in the stash from Mike's XS (sold as OE Yamaha by an internet merchant). It measured out to spec at .047", so I kept it rather than return it and upgrade the resulting 1-star review as the jerk begged me to do.
     
    Team Junk and Jim like this.
  12. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    Actually, Jim, setting up a straw man means to present a vulnerable advocate of a school of thought, political faction, etc. as representative of the whole, criticize or characterize that advocate, and imply or assert that the critique or characterization applies not just to the individual but to the group. False attribution involves an outright lie; the straw man tactic can involve no more than exaggerating the significance of something true.
     
    lakeview and Jim like this.
  13. zodc

    zodc XS650 Enthusiast

    This is great information! Well, I'm biased now that I know Vesrah gaskets are made in Japan and have been for over 70 years. Not that I'm going to replace the head gasket right now but being that you can pick the Vesrah set for just under $50 from eBay with shipping, I believe I'll go with that.
     
  14. zodc

    zodc XS650 Enthusiast

    Eventually I will have to replace the head gasket but I just realized this bike has a big fin kit. It's just the fins and still a 650. Does that mean I need to get a difference gasket altogether or will the Vesrah kit gasket work?
     
  15. Bushyeyed1

    Bushyeyed1 Cafe Racer

    I learned the hard way with Mikes xs too. It is good to part shop though, because there is some items that Mikes XS sells cheaper. Also they give free shipping after 100$ and a military discount. They are pretty much the same company as dime city cycles if they weren't bought out by them.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  16. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    Bushy, I'll support a solid, ethical vendor with my money over a cheap one with shady ethics every time, and though some folks disagree, I consider it unethical to persist in selling parts that are known to be defective. Actually both DCC and Mike's XS were gobbled up by Z1 Enterprises with no change in practices at Mike's. Their stuff is sometimes good (connecting rods, for example), sometimes bad (XS Performance camshaft, XS Performance PWK32 knockoff carbs, anything made of rubber including carb boots, and on and on). If you can't find a review of a given part from somebody credible, you're rolling the dice when you buy from Mike's.

    zodc, no worries re. Vesrah head gasket fitment. What signifies is the gasket surface, and that hasn't changed with your big fin cylinders.
     
    YamadudeXS650C and zodc like this.
  17. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Perhaps this thickness difference of head gaskets is why some folks have a harder time installing the cam chain. Will go fine with the thinner gasket, Too tight with the thicker one.
    Leo
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and YamadudeXS650C like this.
  18. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    I have had that very thought myself.
     
  19. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    I had no problem with Athena head gasket when installing the new cam chain. Did as per tech section and used a few sockets as spacers and tightened down to get the link in and peened. The only reason I get athenas is I like the oil drain plug gaskets. Them simply do not leak. Any other crush ring/gasket/washer I put on there always leaked. I bought another Athena kit was cheap on Amazon simply to have those plugs gaskets as spares.

    It sure is easy to accuse/insult due to lack of reading or misread message information. I see it every day at work, here at home on this site and others. I am not a fan of confrontational discussions but have had my fair share of them. From my experience it always points to my first phrase above. And I usually do this: :shrug: lol
     
    timbeck, Mailman, Jim and 2 others like this.
  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, those red Bakelite Athena drain plug washers are wonderful. I've had the same one on my rear drain plug for many years. The sump plate drain plugs are always changing because I swap whole plate/filter assemblies at oil changes. Some have the Athena washers but most have the copper ones. I also like the sump plate gasket, holds up well to multiple uses.
     
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