Miss November XS2 tribute

Today, a few faltering steps forward and one step back. For example, it was a definite step forward to discover the over-long cam chain. It's a DID chain so have ordered a DID rivet link. Trying to avoid buying an expensive splitter/rivet tool so looking at methods used on this forum

Pete, I don't think I'll check the ring gap. In line with my 'policy' just to rebuild from where I am, decided not to lift the barrels. This time.

Checked the head with a metal ruler and it's not fully flat. Able to push a 0.002" feeler under the ruler near the cam chain tunnel. Thinking about using a flat sheet of glass and wet or dry paper or valve paste to grind it flat.

5twins, I had the idea of checking the valve sealing and the method I came up with was to stand the cylinder head on end and pour petrol into first the inlet and then the exhaust ports. Good news on both inlets and the l/h exhaust - no petrol leaking past the valves. However, on the r/h exhaust, by the time I looked, petrol flowing down inside the combustion chamber. Either the valve is seating badly or bent.

Next idea was to remove the valves - all of them, no point just taking one out. Got my ancient spring compressor:


View attachment 145217


As you might see, it's fairly huge and awkward to use. But has proved able to do the job in the past. Started of course with the r/h exhaust. Ran out of adjustment on the threaded part so, to get it to close far enough, had to put a large 'penny washer' on the valve face, held in place with a blob of grease. Perhaps that end was taking too much of my attention. Sounds like an excuse? No, the blame is all mine. Tool not suitable as I should have realised before it started taking chunks out of the head:


View attachment 145218


Ouch! I really hate inflicting damage. Almost enough to make a grown man swear.

Can't be helped now, just have to try and tidy up when I eventually have the valves out.

Have ordered a smaller spring compressor, with a long attachment to go over the spring washer so it should be well clear of the head. Also some of the parts I'll need for the rebuild. Including 4 x Suzuki copper washers for the outer head bolts.

There will be a haitus now until the new spring compressor arrives. Might be able to do some refurbishment on nuts and bolts, etc. And grind the cylinder head face.

Is anybody actually interested in any of this? I owe a big thank you to all of you who have read about my travails and posted helpful replies. Cheers, Raymond
A good way of removing the valve collets is to place the head face down on a bench, pack the combustion chamber with a rag place a suitable deep socket on the collar and hit it with a soft faced or dead blow hammer. Works most of the time. Downside is you can’t put them back in the same manner.
 
Paul, that's a very kind offer. I suspect that they may be too far gone but could take a photo tomorrow.

All four adjustment screws show wear - on one it's minimal, like small dents. On two it's showing signs of going through the hardening and on one its quite badly through. So on those three, you can see cratering instead of worn-but-smooth metal.

I haven't looked at replacement parts yet, but will definitely bear in mind your suggestion of Virago if XS650 not available. Having an Allen headed adjuster sounds like good news. It's also good news to hear there are alternatives which fit!

5twins, oops, I never thought about the risk of disturbing the base gasket. Fortunately, I don't think I've done that.

But I have turned the engine to have a look at the bores. No signs of scoring and I can't feel a wear ridge at the top of the bore, where the top ring stops. On some engines in the past, have been able to feel a distinct ridge - apparently, our finger tips can detect a ridge you can't even see. I'll clean them up - rather oily just now - shine a bright torch and see if I can see honing marks.

Been thinking about how to clean the piston crowns. I don't want to get particles of gritty carbon on the sides of the pistons so the idea which came to me at 3am last night was to put the pistons at TDC, apply a good smear of grease around the edge of each to seal the gap, clean up the central area, then wipe the grease and gritty muck away. Wind the pistons down and wipe again around top of bores..

Also, besides the rubber failure thing, there's also a chance the guide wasn't centered when mounted. It could be "cocked" in there and that would allow the chain to run across it sort of diagonally. This will chew up the outer edges top and bottom on opposite sides .....

The front chain guide shows exactly what you have described. One side has a rubber lip, the other not. So, I'll replace the guide. I see this can be done with the barrels in place. Any tips to ensure it's straight?

Today, while waiting for the spring compressor, went to Galashiels (on the wee Honda) and bought grinding paste and a valve tool. Also, started to draw up a checklist of jobs. It's not complete but already fills three pages.

The women in my life would say, Oh well, keep you out of trouble . . .
 
Rasputin, we crossed in the post. Thanks for the suggestion, but have spring compressor on order so I'll wait. Plenty of other things to get on with. Cheers, Raymond
 
Raymond, great work so far. Been away for a number of days, and come back to find much has been learned & done!

On the question of checking the ring gaps...tough choice. On the one hand, you're already 90% there and having the motor out is a big part of that job, if it were a lighter motor to get in/out I wouldn't bother...but since it's already out, why do something twice when it can be done with and confirmed the first time? BUT...on the other hand, unless there's evidence that the pistons aren't sealing well, blow-by, or other warning signs, probably not an issue and doesn't make sense to get into them...plus, if shortening the cam chain doesn't fix the issue, you'll be tearing into it again anyways. :)

OK...now I feel like I'm just babbling in circles and pretty sure I have added zero value to this thread... I'll just stand over here in the corner. Ha ha.
 
5twins, as per your suggestion:


PICT1858.JPG


Paul, as requested:


PICT1860.JPG


Couldn't take a close-up so probably impossible to see, but this is the worst tappet with a bad case of dental caries.

Took up your suggestion of Virago adjuster screws and have bought 4-off from CMS in Netherlands.

Thank you for the offer to reface them - I could still take you up on that, to have the originals as spares or to pass on to another owner who needs adjusters - if you think you can repair screws when the worn through?

Cheers, Raymond
 
Unfortunately, you can't be sure the front guide is centered unless you install it with the cylinders removed. The guide hangs out both the top and bottom of the cylinders .....

8tILt5W.jpg


To center it, you measure to it's sides from the sides of the cam chain tunnel .....

o0c8evP.jpg


You need to do this where it sticks out the top and at the bottom too. Obviously, you couldn't check the bottom with the cylinders installed.
 
Yesterday again some progress and one unfortunate step back.

In order to centre the cam chain guide, have now pulled the cylinder block off:


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and removed the pistons:


PICT1861.JPG


The bores are in quite good shape with no scoring or other visible damage. I expect they could do with honing.

The pistons show some scuffing - believe me, I've seen much worse - and there is evidence of blow-by past the rings. One of today's jobs will be to measure the end gaps. Unfortunately, accurate measurement is not something I'm very confident with. And it's all too easy to think your going to bend or snap a piston ring. Or scratch the piston.

Confidence in my mechanical ineptitude has risen since trying to remove the cylinder block. It was reluctant to move. Very reluctant. The Haynes manual says that gentle tapping with a soft-nosed mallet may be needed. OMG - that's a broken fin then.

I think I said earlier that I hate inflicting damage? This is not going as I would like . . .
 
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Well, as Grandma used to say, in for a penny, in for a pound.....

Stick at it and you’ll hardly remember these travails when you ride that old gal.
 
And then the valve spring compressor arrived:


PICT1864.JPG


R/h exhaust valve is not noticeably bent.
 
You will find out for sure when you try to lap the valves....

I rolled the exhaust valves along the edge of a table and watched for any apparent 'wobble' - couldn't see any.

This afternoon, started cleaning the valves. No wonder the r/h exhaust was leaking - a lot of build up on the back of the valve and the valve seat. When I scraped the black soot off, came to build up of white ceramic-looking material which is much harder to remove. Inlets weren't quite so bad.

Going to have to do some cleaning on the head as well - valve seats, ports, combustion chambers.

Thursday's job will be lapping valves. Should be feeling nostalgic, it's a job I first did forty years ago on a Norton Commando.

But nostalgia just isn't what it used to be . . .
 
You can gently chuck the valves up in a cordless (or corded) drill and spin them. That will show you right away if they're bent. The valves are hardened steel so you can safely wire wheel them clean. Yes, they're tough to clean because the carbon is really baked on them. For other carboned up areas like the combustion chamber, piston tops, and exhaust ports, paint stripper works well for cleaning. It may take a couple applications but it pretty much just melts the carbon away.
 
Thank you, gentlemen. Today, have 'other duties'. But I will order new piston rings and a honing tool. 5-twins - thanks for the suggestion of paint stripper. Have been using up some ancient Nitromors so I think I know where the last of that is going. Pistons will be easier to clean now they are out.

Pete - I don't think hot tanking, which I have not heard of, is likely to be available in the Borders but we do have a chap who does aqua-blasting which cleans off all the muck but does not damage metal surfaces. Might take the head over to him once it's ready for reassembly.

Some cleaning, some valve lapping and perhaps start putting the bike back together. Riding my XS650 feels like a distant dream . . .
 
Thank you TwoMany. Gudgeon pins seem good fit - push out slowly with firm finger pressure.

Will have a go at gently rocking the con rods side to side. Fingers crossed there won't be much play - really don't want to have to go any further into the motor. But, there's a little thing called peace of mind.
 
It might be worthwhile having the head hot tanked to really clean it without risking any damage.

Pete
Just a word of caution about "hot tanking" make sure who ever is doing it is using chemicals that are safe for aluminum. At least "back in the day" as the saying goes, some of the hot tank chemicals were caustic enough to eat aluminum. Guy I worked with years ago had his own shop rebuilding truck engines. One of his "helpers" decided to load up the hot tank one night to give the parts a good cleaning. Next morning the boss asked where the flywheel housing was for the engine. "Helper" says right in the tank with the rest of the parts! Not sure where that guy was working the next day!
 
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Before my painter gets it he always has me send my tanks to a guy that strips whole cars down in a tank. Classic Auto Stripping. Darren has done many a tank for me and never had a issue. They come back whistle clean inside and out. Until the XS2 tank. Apparently there is a aluminum neck. Bye bye that tank. Darren didn’t catch it.
 
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