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Miss November XS2 tribute
- Thread starter Raymond
- Start date
On the language thing, one which always make me smile, heard it again the other day looking at a Youtube video on making electrical joints. In the UK we say solder, pronounced as it's written, rhymes with older, but in the US its solder, rhymes with fodder. Sounds very odd and a bit, uhm, iffy to British ears . . .
But today, reached this landmark:
The significance? As re-wire progresses and familiarity with new electrical system increases, instead of something kept for reference the old harness had become a tripping hazard.
Feeling like onwards and upwards again.
Don't throw that stuff out. There's lots of good factory crimped connectors in there, good for repairs and adding accessories. Also, much of the wire is probably still good. Some of the color coded stuff used is difficult to find.
Bit of an electroramus question coming up . . . am I correct in assuming that the flasher unit can be wired either way round? That is, it don't care which direction the battery is? Please excuse my ignorance but some components are damaged if wired wrong way, no?
It's a three-wire unit but only had two wires. I was going to omit the flash cancel anyway so I'm happy with that.
Not too far to go with the full re-wire now . . .
It's a three-wire unit but only had two wires. I was going to omit the flash cancel anyway so I'm happy with that.
Not too far to go with the full re-wire now . . .
Well, finished the full re-wire. Stage one.
Unfortunately, there are problems, ie must have made mistooks. Put battery back in, switched on and hooray, the Neutral light came on. Switched the lights on - dipped, main beam and tail light all work. Horn works. Front and rear brake lights work. Indicators? (Turn signals?) Well, it's a mixed picture, select Left and both left-hand indicators work. Select Right and both right-hand indicators work but rear left comes on faintly as well. Press the starter and Nada. Also tried checking continuity to the coil & Boyer box - nope, unless Kill switch is turned to Stop, when there is continuity. Oh dear.
It's all been too much for me today. Will sleep on it and see if I have any Bright Ideas how to tackle it again tomorrow.
Unfortunately, there are problems, ie must have made mistooks. Put battery back in, switched on and hooray, the Neutral light came on. Switched the lights on - dipped, main beam and tail light all work. Horn works. Front and rear brake lights work. Indicators? (Turn signals?) Well, it's a mixed picture, select Left and both left-hand indicators work. Select Right and both right-hand indicators work but rear left comes on faintly as well. Press the starter and Nada. Also tried checking continuity to the coil & Boyer box - nope, unless Kill switch is turned to Stop, when there is continuity. Oh dear.
It's all been too much for me today. Will sleep on it and see if I have any Bright Ideas how to tackle it again tomorrow.
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It’s a brave attempt and you will learn from ironing out the faults. If I could offer one piece of advice, from the main earth point where the battery Neg attaches to the frame run a wire into the headlamp, use this to ground all the negative wires from the indicators, warning lamps, instrument bulbs, and headlamp bulb. Earths are so important for correct operation. But you knew that I’m sure.
Hey Reymondo
See if you can get one of these in the UK. I am on my second one and had one for years. It allows you to send 12v into circuits and find earth's/grounds. Its the first thing I grab now for any 12v testing.
https://www.jaycar.com.au/automotive-multi-function-circuit-tester-with-lcd/p/QM1494
See if you can get one of these in the UK. I am on my second one and had one for years. It allows you to send 12v into circuits and find earth's/grounds. Its the first thing I grab now for any 12v testing.
https://www.jaycar.com.au/automotive-multi-function-circuit-tester-with-lcd/p/QM1494
Thanks Rasputin. I have put effort into providing good earths. Note, didn't say I've succeeded. But have put earth wires in all over the place - tail light, rear indicators, alt/reg/rec, all leading back to ring terminals at the cylinder head to head-steady bolts. Added one from the lower yoke to same as well.
Ozboy, thank you for the suggestion. Had a look and there are similar multi-function testers available. Looks like a very useful tool with the function to push power into a circuit and some of them claim to be able to check, not just continuity but the quality of the wiring even through the insulation. Might well buy one.
But my main problem is that wiring systems live at or beyond the outer limit of my understanding. Today, was trying to investigate why the starter ain't working and wondering whether I've wired the safety relay wrongly. Here's what I'm aiming at if I haven't made too many mistakes:
Safety relay is supposed to disable the starter if there's a voltage on the yellow wire from the alternator. But I can't quite see whether there's something missing - does it need a power feed?
Have managed to establish there's a good 12v reaching the coil when the ignition is ON so I suspect the bike would perhaps start with the kick. Once I put the fuel tank back on of course. With the engine running, would be able to check the bike is charging but not a lot I can do with static tests.
Tomorrow will try and investigate what is going on with the Start button - it's just weird having a switch with only one wire going into it. As said above, lack of understanding.
Ozboy, thank you for the suggestion. Had a look and there are similar multi-function testers available. Looks like a very useful tool with the function to push power into a circuit and some of them claim to be able to check, not just continuity but the quality of the wiring even through the insulation. Might well buy one.
But my main problem is that wiring systems live at or beyond the outer limit of my understanding. Today, was trying to investigate why the starter ain't working and wondering whether I've wired the safety relay wrongly. Here's what I'm aiming at if I haven't made too many mistakes:
Safety relay is supposed to disable the starter if there's a voltage on the yellow wire from the alternator. But I can't quite see whether there's something missing - does it need a power feed?
Have managed to establish there's a good 12v reaching the coil when the ignition is ON so I suspect the bike would perhaps start with the kick. Once I put the fuel tank back on of course. With the engine running, would be able to check the bike is charging but not a lot I can do with static tests.
Tomorrow will try and investigate what is going on with the Start button - it's just weird having a switch with only one wire going into it. As said above, lack of understanding.
The start button is a ground switch. Power from the safety relay goes through the starter solenoid and to the button (Blue/White wire). Pressing it completes the circuit by providing a ground. Not sure how you wired yours.... but normal ground path when button is pushed is across the handlebars to left switch housing... from there a black wire goes into the headlight bucket and ties to the ground circuit there.
Yes, the safety relay needs a power feed wire. If you look at it, you should see 2 R/W wires. One is single with a bullet connector and runs to the solenoid. That's the power out once the relay is tripped. The other should be in the 3 wire connector block. That one would be power in from one of the fuses, probably the one designated "headlight".
Thanks, Jim, earth for the handle bar switches is a bit of a mystery to me. When I opened it up, there was a mess with five (count 'em) bare-ended copper wires pulled to a domestic plastic union, in turn attached with another bare-ended copper wire wrapped around one of the bolts that holds the headlamp shell. And I thought, that can't be right. Apart from bound to be shorts - a couple of fuses did in fact blow - the headlamp shell is rubber mounted. However, have checked the black (earth?) lead from the headlamp bulb which goes into the l/h switch cluster and there is good continuity from there to the cylinder head so something must work? I led the earth from the lights on/off to the same place and the lights work OK.
Thanks 5t - very helpful. So power should go to the relay, then on to the solenoid, then to earth when Start is pushed. I don't think power is routed to the relay at the moment. Will take a look at what remains of the wiring to it and see what needs to be connected to a hot wire - it doesn't match what you said but it had probably been modified even before I further changed things . . .
Thanks 5t - very helpful. So power should go to the relay, then on to the solenoid, then to earth when Start is pushed. I don't think power is routed to the relay at the moment. Will take a look at what remains of the wiring to it and see what needs to be connected to a hot wire - it doesn't match what you said but it had probably been modified even before I further changed things . . .
Made this awhile back....
The ground wire you found wrapped around the turn signal mount isn't getting a ground from there, it's supplying it. There should be another run to the other turn signal mount. Both then tie into the ground wires coming out of the main harness. These run back through the harness and ground to the frame, usually at a coil mount .....
There is a separate short engine ground jumper wire from one of the top mounts to the top of the engine but it doesn't have anything to do with the harness grounding.
There is a separate short engine ground jumper wire from one of the top mounts to the top of the engine but it doesn't have anything to do with the harness grounding.
Raymond: the fact that just about everything is worked EXCEPT the starter suggests to me that perhaps your starter safety relay have simply need to be cleaned (I don’t recall if you had mentioned doing that already).
To clean it - just remove the stamped sheet metal cover (two very tiny JIS screws) and spray in some electrical contact cleaner. Then use something like a business card and drag it between the two little contactor points to clean them.
I had a dead starter on Lucille about three weeks after I got her running - three weeks with excellent starter performance BTW - and it took two cleaning sessions to get everything functioning reliably again.
Stick at it - you’re getting close!
Pete
To clean it - just remove the stamped sheet metal cover (two very tiny JIS screws) and spray in some electrical contact cleaner. Then use something like a business card and drag it between the two little contactor points to clean them.
I had a dead starter on Lucille about three weeks after I got her running - three weeks with excellent starter performance BTW - and it took two cleaning sessions to get everything functioning reliably again.
Stick at it - you’re getting close!
Pete
More info on the safety relay....
The white wire from them Boyer amplifier goes to ground, you show it going to the coil, it can ground at the coil mounting, I’m sure that’s how you meant it.
As 5T pointed out, you're missing the R/W power wire to the safety relay. Run it from the kill sw. so the starter won't work if you use the kill sw. Sucks to drain the battery if you kill the iggy and still allow the starter to work. Don't ask me how I know that....
Gentlemen, once again Thank You to all for your help on this!
It is much clearer to me now what the starter circuit and starter relay need. The wiring I had to start with had been modified and I've changed it a lot more so I was feeling a bit out on my own. But Rasputin, yes the white wire from BB was to the coil mount not the spade connector.
The black ground from the other coil mount used to go to a horrible mess of soldered (soddered?) black wires which I have replaced with bullet connected wiring from most of the earths on my diagram (not the neutral switch which grounds straight into the engine) and led to two ring terminals at the head steady, so there is still a connection from the head steady to the coil mount. Not too sure that all is correct, but . . .
Pete, I will take the safety relay off today so will have a wee look inside and clean it. I need to join a new wire from the kill switch to give a power feed as Jim suggests. Quite probable that's why the starter motor is inert.
Jim, I will open up the l/h switch cluster and check the earth wire which I think is the one connected to the headlamp bulb. Will check if/how this routes to earth.
And Pete, thank you for
Need a bit of encouragement sometimes.
It is much clearer to me now what the starter circuit and starter relay need. The wiring I had to start with had been modified and I've changed it a lot more so I was feeling a bit out on my own. But Rasputin, yes the white wire from BB was to the coil mount not the spade connector.
The black ground from the other coil mount used to go to a horrible mess of soldered (soddered?) black wires which I have replaced with bullet connected wiring from most of the earths on my diagram (not the neutral switch which grounds straight into the engine) and led to two ring terminals at the head steady, so there is still a connection from the head steady to the coil mount. Not too sure that all is correct, but . . .
Pete, I will take the safety relay off today so will have a wee look inside and clean it. I need to join a new wire from the kill switch to give a power feed as Jim suggests. Quite probable that's why the starter motor is inert.
Jim, I will open up the l/h switch cluster and check the earth wire which I think is the one connected to the headlamp bulb. Will check if/how this routes to earth.
And Pete, thank you for
Need a bit of encouragement sometimes.
Cleaning the points in the safety relay:
Why did the memory of a visit to Galashiels telephone exchange as a youngster come to mind? Reassuringly old-fashioned technology?
Why did the memory of a visit to Galashiels telephone exchange as a youngster come to mind? Reassuringly old-fashioned technology?
Well, with an additional wire from the kill switch output to the safety relay, the starter now works.
Put the fuel tank back, pushed her out into the drizzle and she started first kick! Result.
Note old-style black & silver number plate - now legal for vehicles manufactured before 1979. Even the number plate supplier didn't know that!
Of course, there's still a lot more work to do.
Unfortunately, still won't take any throttle. Limped up the street and back again and any throttle just kills the engine. Idles nicely and a blip of throttle sends the revs up. But only so far. Gets to 3,500 and give more throttle to rev further? Nothing doing.
Can't believe it's carbs as the bike was running better than this a few weeks back. Still got electrical gremlins? Perhaps. Dodgy magnetic rotor despite the boffins saying No? Well, I've got that spare rotor so that's one to test.
Tomorrow.
Funny set of emotions today. Very happy that the bike lives again. Disappointed that it still has a running problem.
Put the fuel tank back, pushed her out into the drizzle and she started first kick! Result.
Note old-style black & silver number plate - now legal for vehicles manufactured before 1979. Even the number plate supplier didn't know that!
Of course, there's still a lot more work to do.
Unfortunately, still won't take any throttle. Limped up the street and back again and any throttle just kills the engine. Idles nicely and a blip of throttle sends the revs up. But only so far. Gets to 3,500 and give more throttle to rev further? Nothing doing.
Can't believe it's carbs as the bike was running better than this a few weeks back. Still got electrical gremlins? Perhaps. Dodgy magnetic rotor despite the boffins saying No? Well, I've got that spare rotor so that's one to test.
Tomorrow.
Funny set of emotions today. Very happy that the bike lives again. Disappointed that it still has a running problem.
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