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Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Raymondo, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Darn it all. Yes, slides with good diaphragms are getting scarce over here on the West Coast USA too. Is there ever opportunity for you to find used XS parts near you ? Had my hands on a pile of carbs last weekend and forgot to look for slides/ diaphragms .. thanks for the reminder and good luck . You have patience for sure.
    PS: I thought Holland was all about pedal power these days ? Carbs IDK bout that lol
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    Raymondo likes this.
  2. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    “Rider2000” seller name in Eugene Oregon. Interesting Brassneck.
    $40.. dang , Makes picking up used BS38’s seem even more like a smart move.
    Brassneck likes this.
  3. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    There were only the two types of slides for the BS38s. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone sells the later type you need new. Good used ones may be your only option.

    As far as fitting the older style slide to your carbs goes, that's sort of a "gray" area. Besides getting the different needles, you would have to match all the other carb jets too. The jetting for any of these carbs was chosen to work with the needle and needle jet combo used. Here's a list of the carb jetting specs over the years. If you decide to use the older slides, I think your best option would be to match the '76-'77 jetting specs. That was the only other carb set that used the VM22/210 pilots like your '78 set does. Trying to use an older jet spec would require different float bowls that were made to use the BS30/96 type pilot jets .....

    Raymondo likes this.
  4. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Thank you for the link, Brassneck. I haven't bought the slide - couldn't see what needle retainer type. But the site had a further link


    Don't know if that will work for you - perhaps copy and paste into Google - and but it's a UK source for just the rubber diaphragms. There's a video on XS650 of a chap changing the rubber diaphragm on his BS34, but it's not much help because the replacements he used had a thick rubber ring which replaced the plastic rings holding the original diaphragm. You need to butcher these to get the old rubber off.

    I've emailed the seller to see what he says about fitting the items he sells.

    Meanwhile, I will contact Heiden and see what they can do - replace with the correct slide would be ideal or failing that sell me needles etc to suit the ones they supplied.
  5. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    5T, thank you again - you are a fund of knowledge! We crossed in the post while I was researching what Machine posted.

    It can all get rather confusing and I am still hoping Heiden can supply the correct slides. But they close from Sunday to Thursday so I won't get a reply from them just yet.

    If I stick with the older style slides,I'll follow your advice on jetting. And I had been thinking all I needed to do was obtain the correct needles and whatever the arrangement is for holding them.

    I've given up on being riding the XS for the 2019 season so I suppose that means there's plenty of time to sort it out.
    MaxPete likes this.
  6. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Update - correction, you can see the needle retainer. Now I need to think . . .

    . . . oh, go on then. Just re-visited the site and made A Purchase. Still need to sort out with Heiden though.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  7. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Yes, I don't know how you're supposed to install those diaphragms you linked to without damaging them. The originals are tightly pressed in there.

    Yes, if you decide to use the older slides and try to match the older jetting, you will need both the 4M1 needle AND it's matching Z-8 needle jet. They are a matched pair. If you have exhaust and intake mods then your current 27.5 pilots may be OK and just right (it's only one above the stock '76-'77 #25), but your current 135 main would most likely be too big. You would probably need something in the high 120's to low 130's range. But, it would be all about experimenting, seeing what ran best.
    MaxPete and Raymondo like this.
  8. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    YES - I am not a carb expert but I can certainly confirm that Yamaha made the headlight bucket on the early-mid Standard models too frickin' small. Its dumb - and totally unnecessary as there is several inches of unoccupied real estate behind the bucket and ahead of the frame steering head tube which could have been used for a slightly more generously sized bucket.

    Anyhow, it is (at least for me) a significant battle to get all the danged wiring stuffed in there AND get the headlight back on AND not have any of the wiring connectors come adrift in the process.

    Anyhow - stick at it Raymond - you're getting closer everyday.

    peanut and Raymondo like this.
  9. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    The Yamaha lives!

    Today, a small box arrived from Eugene, Oregon with a second-hand BS38 carb slide, complete with tear-free rubber diaphragm.

    Out to the garage to check it's the correct one. As you do. Re-assembled and fitted the carbs and thought it might be a good idea to check that the motor now starts. So, fitted the air filters and petrol tank. It starts, and soon settles down to a steady tick-over but a little bit too high. Because previously one carb was not working correctly? Set the tick-over down a tad.

    Now, the bike is stripped because I've been working on the electrics as well as the carbs. But the little boy in me thought, you've put the petrol tank back on, all you need to do now is fit the seat and you're good to go. Bit of masking tape around the wiring in the headlamp shell, grab a helmet and off we go.

    Only three or four miles, on a tiny lane lane mostly used by farmers. Narrow with right-angle bends and high hedges. Covered in wet leaves, mud, slime and gravel. Hardly the place to assess a bike's performance. But, for the last 1/2 mile back to the village, we're on a slightly wider & straighter country lane. Come on, will she take a touch of throttle?

    Well, the good news is, this was the first time I've ridden the XS when it didn't suffer from clutch slip, massive flat spot or a just plain refusal to run at all. For that half-mile, the Yamaha was just beautiful. OK, we're only talking 50-60 mph on a slimy lane. But the combination of being on a bike, the engine responding to the throttle and all the emotions that go along with trying to fix something and making progress?

    I'm probably still grinning like an idiot. And now I need to wash off all that no-doubt salty mud:


    But all-in-all, a very good day.
  10. Brassneck

    Brassneck XS650 Guru

    Yahoo! Feels like we're all winning. Nice job!! ;)
    TwoManyXS1Bs, MaxPete, Jim and 2 others like this.
  11. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Great news ! Eugene Oregon huh.
    Small world Raymond :D

    Attached Files:

    TwoManyXS1Bs, MaxPete, peanut and 2 others like this.
  12. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Well, thank you again! You spotted the carb slide on US ebay, which I never would have.

    Still got to sort things out with Heiden tuning. Still got to fit the new LED indicators - turn signals - when they arrive. Still got to check the spark timing. Again. Might need to adjust the clutch again. But those are the things you gotta get on with - all part of life with an, uhm, older motorcycle.

    But yes, today definitely feels like we're winning.
  13. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    You may want to check the carb sync now that they're sorted. They may have been "synced" to match the prior condition they were in (bad slide).
    MaxPete and Raymondo like this.
  14. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Thank you 5t, sounds like a very good idea! I'll make a plastic tube manometer.

    Now at last, after four-and-a-half months of work, I've been able to turn the runner I thought I was buying into an actual runner.

    It's all fettling now . . .
  15. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    well done that man .:) there's nothing like that excitement tinged with some anxiety of that first run ....except maybe the second and third runs lol:bike:
    TwoManyXS1Bs, MaxPete, Jim and 2 others like this.
  16. fredintoon

    fredintoon Fred Hill, S'toon. Top Contributor

    Hi Raymondo,
    the LED turn signals must use an LED-compatible flasher unit because the stocker needs a 40+Watt load to work right.
    And only the stock flasher will work the self-cancelling unit.
    MaxPete and Raymondo like this.
  17. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge, is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    If you have any spare pilot jets laying around, they make the manometer much easier to use...

    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
    MaxPete and Raymondo like this.
  18. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Hi Fred, I'm buying 4 LED flashers plus an LED flasher unit. The self-cancelling unit was one of the casualties of my simplifying the wiring system, along with the light checker and auxiliary light unit and anything else I felt I could do without.
    mrtwowheel and MaxPete like this.
  19. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Thank you for the video. I'll have a look in the garage and see if I can find any old pilot jets. Or might have something that would do the job.
    MaxPete and Jim like this.

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