Helmet fitting problems

[pago cruiser]

I'm fortunate to have a wonderful wife who enjoys long trips - we're headed from Tucson to Minny Soda this summer with our canine in our Valkyrie sidecar rig.

But. I have purchased 3 helmets for her in the last 5 years (Arai open face, Arai full coverage, Shoei full coverage) , as once it gets warm (so she says) the helmet hurts her head - on top. She does have a tall-ish head, and I am guessing that most helmets are just too Charlie-Brown-ish shape (round) for her to be comfortable on long rides.

We have been to our local Cycle Gear trying them on in the store, but they will not let us try for a couple hour trip - and maybe have to return it if she has the same problem.

About all I can think of is to get a maybe 3" hole saw and drill into the liner inside for maybe 1/8" to 1/4" to 3/8" and remove the foam (or expanded polystyrene, or whatever the hell it is) so her head fits.

Yea, I know it will void the warranty (BFD, no warranty anyhow), and if we happen to get in an accident and the impact point is directly on top of her head, there will be less protection. But the way I see it, most impacts are NOT directly on top of your head:

From here (and other places, as I have seen it b4); which is also a good article on helmets in general: http://metrohog.com/crash_padding_-_part_2.htm
oddly enough, from a Harley site. And I know some folks have different opinions... so

Anybody else had to solve this? Yes, it seems odd to be intentionally altering a helmet to provide less imoact protection. But I figure it is better to mod a helmet so she will wear it than to have her not wear one. Dang it, I've got over $1k in helmets sitting on a shelf she won't wear... which could have bought a lot more bike parts.

 

[gggGary]

I have kind a of a lump TDC on my skull about 1 1/2" round maybe 3/8" tall, helmets always get me sore there after awhile. I take a rounded end dowel and a hammer and mash the foam in a bit to get rid of the pressure spot. Actually thanks for the reminder I need to do that to my quiet ride helmet.
My stepson has a very long head, we would do the same thing front and back to fit helmets to his head. Sure it's less than ideal, but a helmet that's comfortable gets worn. Until they sell custom foamed helmets like ski boots.

 

[pago cruiser]

gggGary - thanks for the quick reply.
Great idea to just try beating it in for compression instead of actual material removal.
Besides, a hammer is a lot easier too to use than a drill!

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Pago,
your #1 post implies that you plan to sit your wife on the Valk's pillion seat and carry your dog in it's sidecar?
Um, how big is the dog? And what's the sidecar's seating capacity?
As a sidecar man myself I'd advise that the safest way to carry a passenger is in the sidecar, NOT on the bike.
Once safely sitting behind the sidecar's windshield your wife won't need a constricting full-face helmet, a legal minimalist beanie will be OK.

 

[MaxPete]

There is an online store called (I think) Motorcycle Superstore and they have a program/service called LidPicker.

I have not used it, but apparently it provides guidance on various helmet brands and sizes based some fairly detailed measurements of a persons noggin. Apparently, some brands/models are better for long heads and others for round heads etc - and this LidPicker thing can guide you on all of that.

My only other suggestion would be a belt sander....but that isn't likely very helpful....is it?

 

[mrtwowheel]

That's awful Pete, to suggest that Pago use a belt sander on his wife's head. I hope you weren't serious.

Scott

 

[MaxPete]

Nooooo - I was suggesting that he use a belt sander on the helmets!!!!

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Like Gary, I have a "lump" on my skull, only it is on my forehead. For some of my cheaper helmets, I have successfully done what he has done, hammered the appropriate area of the helmet foam.

However, my HJC helmet liners all are constructed in a way that accommodates my odd shape.

 

[pago cruiser]

Thanks all - some good comments.

fredintoon - Yeah , it goes against the grain of some established hack how-to's. My thought is that that is great initial info for hack pilots, and will help keep them out of (most) trouble until they get several thousand miles under their belt. But for a 750lb Valk with a Motorvation F2 complete with a 30 lb car battery, a 20 lb air compressor with 2 gallon air tank, prolly 50 lbs of tools with another 50 lbs of spares, toting a weeks worth of clothing, dog food, and finally a 50lb canine, the weight balance works out well enough. Having a trailing-arm torsion bar suspension with a motorized levellor helps immensely to deal with the weight balance's affect on tilt. We currently have (had to stop and count) 5 hacks, I'm almost embarrassed to say, with prolly 40-50k miles travelled in the last 10 years. Same wife, (2) canines, different rigs. 95 Triumph T-Bird with a Velorex (a true light weight rig), a KLR Enduro rig (hyper light weight!), an HD XR1200 with a Ural off-road rig (a really fun fire-road rider), A GL1200 with a Motorvation F2 (blown engine on this trip last summer), and the current Valk. In my defense, only two are running...

Gratuitous Valk hack pic:

We really need a Hack section on this forum...

MaxPete - great idea about the sizing site. Will check that out with the wife this afternoon. That said, I have spent long enough in the Cycle Gear store with wifey trying on 6 (or was it eight?) different brands/models of helmets that I know all the sales-persons by name, what kind of bike they ride, car they drive, etc. Problem is I get a lot of :"A lot of people like this one"; (which turns out to be some brand I have never heard of that costs $49.95). Cyber? Scorpion? Speed and Strength? I also remember seeing a manufacturer from India. Anybody remember Bell Helmets (who pretty much invented moto sport helmets) very effective sales slogan? "If you have a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet".

Scott - strangely enough, that was my first comment ("why don't I get the belt sander out?") when she started whining about this a few years ago. POW! It only took a couple days for my hearing to return... Note: I should be fine, as she never reads these posts...

Yamadude - thanks for the confirmation.

Jeeze, look at the time.

 

[MaxPete]

THAT is a snazz looking rig Pago - very smart!

Yup, I have heard that "LidPicker" is quite effective, particularly for challenging fit situations. There really is NOTHING worse than an ill-fitting helmet. Pure misery I'm sure.

Pete

 

[gggGary]

There's a bunch of fitting helmets videos on youtube.

 

[fredintoon]

fredintoon - Yeah , it goes against the grain of some established hack how-to's. My thought is that that is great initial info for hack pilots, and will help keep them out of (most) trouble until they get several thousand miles under their belt. But for a 750lb Valk with a Motorvation F2 complete with a 30 lb car battery, a 20 lb air compressor with 2 gallon air tank, prolly 50 lbs of tools with another 50 lbs of spares, toting a weeks worth of clothing, dog food, and finally a 50lb canine, the weight balance works out well enough. Having a trailing-arm torsion bar suspension with a motorized levellor helps immensely to deal with the weight balance's affect on tilt. We currently have (had to stop and count) 5 hacks, I'm almost embarrassed to say, with prolly 40-50k miles travelled in the last 10 years. Same wife, (2) canines, different rigs. 95 Triumph T-Bird with a Velorex (a true light weight rig), a KLR Enduro rig (hyper light weight!), an HD XR1200 with a Ural off-road rig (a really fun fire-road rider), A GL1200 with a Motorvation F2 (blown engine on this trip last summer), and the current Valk. In my defense, only two are running...

Hi Pago,
nice rig. A real upmarket unit compared to my XS11/SofA & XS650/Velorex rigs. But the same rule applies:-
Put your wife in the chair! And the dog too, if it'll fit. Or in a cage behind the chair. It's safer that way.
A pillion passenger on a solo can lean on the driver and even doze off in reasonable safety because a solo bike leans over on corners.
Rigs don't lean over on corners so a rig's pillion passenger has to stay alert to notice corners lest they get thrown off sideways.
Better she sits in the chair and listens to Elvis on her earbuds.

 

[mrtwowheel]

Hi Pago,
nice rig. A real upmarket unit compared to my XS11/SofA & XS650/Velorex rigs. But the same rule applies:-
Put your wife in the chair! And the dog too, if it'll fit. Or in a cage behind the chair. It's safer that way.
A pillion passenger on a solo can lean on the driver and even doze off in reasonable safety because a solo bike leans over on corners.
Rigs don't lean over on corners so a rig's pillion passenger has to stay alert to notice corners lest they get thrown off sideways.
Better she sits in the chair and listens to Elvis on her earbuds.

I think it's past your bed time Fred.

 

[fredintoon]

I think it's past your bed time Fred.

Hi Scott,
thanks for your concern but folks my age can stay up quite late so long as we take a little nap after lunch.
If you have any experience at all in the safe placement of sidecar rig passengers both Pago and I would be pleased to hear it.

 

[peanut]

I think there is more trouble finding a good fitting helmet than any other bit of bike kit.

Just thinking out loud .......what about lining the inside of the helmet with a thin polythene bag then pouring some alginate into the helmet followed by another layer of polythene. Place the helmet on your Wifes head for 60 seconds or so until the Alginate has 'set' and you have a perfect impression for forming a mould . it can't be too difficult to then fill the mould with expanding foam which when set can be glued into the helmet to make a perfect fit.....

 

[MrBultaco]

Great 'outfit' (sidecar rig) pago...your dog needs these: https://www.amazon.com/Doggles-Dog-Goggles-LARGE-SHINY/dp/B003NTERP4

 

[pago cruiser]

Scott/Fred - Thanks, but I'm good.
Claude (the Freedom Sidecar guy, whom is on ADVRider often) has a great summary. From ADVRider a few years ago:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/pillion-passenger-with-sidecar.707661/

"Obviously it all comes down to weight distribution. Some will say never run a pillion passenger. Not bad advice but is really a little off base. Question: Can a 300 pound rider drive a sidecar rig? Most will say yes. Question #2: Can a 150 pound driver operate a sidecar outfit with a 150 pound passenger on the pillion?
It is VERY IMPORTANT to think out weight distribution when loading a sidecar oufit!!!!
To place a passenger on the pillion with and empty sidecar th erig will be a differnt animal than before!! Adding ballast to the sidecar may work. Some outfits will be affectd much more than others. A larger outfit like an 1800 with with a GTL hannigan will not shown as drastic a difference as a small light weight outfit.
W E I G H T D I S T R I B U T I O N can be your friend or a deadly enemy if not thought out and dealt with properly.
P R A C T I C E is important when changing outfits. CHANGING THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION IS CHANGING OUTFITS!!"

Not to get to far off track, but with nominal 1300 lb rig, a 250 lb load in the sidecar and my 125 lb wife riding pillion, it's about the same as a 125 lb load in the sidecar and me riding solo, as far as weight balance twixt hack and tug. And that is the rig configuration as I ride solo into town, 100 miles roundtrip at 75-80 mph going down the freeways, 20 miles through town, averaging about 1 day/week. Again, we have tens of thousands of miles on our albeit large and heavy rigs, over all kinds of roads, through all kinds of weather, at both licit and...the other speeds. We have had few problems, few related to handling. YMMV.

Peanut - another good idea, albeit a bit harder to implement. Think I'm going to try the hammer and rounded stick trick this weekend; did not make it last weekend..
MrBultaco - we have tried that. She will not wear them nor the dog helmet; fights us to get them off. I'm guessing she was a Harley rider in a past life.

 

[pago cruiser]

Scott/Fred - Thanks, but I'm good.
Claude (the Freedom Sidecar guy, whom is on ADVRider often) has a great summary. From ADVRider a few years ago:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/pillion-passenger-with-sidecar.707661/

"Obviously it all comes down to weight distribution. Some will say never run a pillion passenger. Not bad advice but is really a little off base. Question: Can a 300 pound rider drive a sidecar rig? Most will say yes. Question #2: Can a 150 pound driver operate a sidecar outfit with a 150 pound passenger on the pillion?
It is VERY IMPORTANT to think out weight distribution when loading a sidecar oufit!!!!
To place a passenger on the pillion with and empty sidecar th erig will be a differnt animal than before!! Adding ballast to the sidecar may work. Some outfits will be affectd much more than others. A larger outfit like an 1800 with with a GTL hannigan will not shown as drastic a difference as a small light weight outfit.
W E I G H T D I S T R I B U T I O N can be your friend or a deadly enemy if not thought out and dealt with properly.
P R A C T I C E is important when changing outfits. CHANGING THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION IS CHANGING OUTFITS!!"

Not to get to far off track, but with nominal 1300 lb rig, a 250 lb load in the sidecar and my 125 lb wife riding pillion, it's about the same as a 125 lb load in the sidecar and me riding solo, as far as weight balance twixt hack and tug. And that is the rig configuration as I ride solo into town, 100 miles roundtrip at 75-80 mph going down the freeways, 20 miles through town, averaging about 1 day/week. Again, we have tens of thousands of miles on our albeit large and heavy rigs, over all kinds of roads, through all kinds of weather, at both licit and...the other speeds. We have had few problems, few related to handling. YMMV.

Peanut - another good idea, albeit a bit harder to implement. Think I'm going to try the hammer and rounded stick trick this weekend; did not make it last weekend..
MrBultaco - we have tried that. She will not wear them nor the dog helmet; fights us to get them off. I'm guessing she was a Harley rider in a past life.