Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Thanks a lot, guys! I'm super lucky that my buddy sold it to me and pleased that he is happy with my path. I don't want to do anything to hurt the character of the bike, for sure.
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Help bring an old flat track racebike back to life!
- Thread starter Apexdc
- Start date
FYI, My S/N is 0244xx. Not far from yours, we're in the same, last revision group. The disc alternator would be a design-from-scratch affair, similar to the posted pic showing 9 coils and 12 magnets. Best done in an indoor lab environment, testing wire gauges and winding counts. Not for the faint-of-heart garage inventor. Easily done by the factories.
Probably biting off more than can be chewed...
Probably biting off more than can be chewed...
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
I think you are probably right. I started seriously thinking about and started to see a lot of the potential issues, including what sort of controller would be used. I think I will just got to total loss for starters and then just see how much range I think I need. Thanks for all your help!!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
TT Pipes and front brake linkage parts are out for plating.
Am back on the engine, working on the kickstarter. The side case had a machined plug inserted that I have not been able to remove by reasonable means. Just got the oil seal today. I'm taking it to a buddy with a real machine shop to have him remove it. Once that is clear I should be able to get the side case back on.
The kickstarter seems to function correctly so far, but the bent heavy wire tab that goes into the two fins barely stays in the slot when it is at rest. The bend on the end is facing out, which I think is correct. Should I be concerned on this or will it probably be OK once everything else is in place? OR, should I flip it over so the bent piece is facing in OR try to just bend it back a little, keeping clear of the gear, of course.
Thanks for any comments!
Am back on the engine, working on the kickstarter. The side case had a machined plug inserted that I have not been able to remove by reasonable means. Just got the oil seal today. I'm taking it to a buddy with a real machine shop to have him remove it. Once that is clear I should be able to get the side case back on.
The kickstarter seems to function correctly so far, but the bent heavy wire tab that goes into the two fins barely stays in the slot when it is at rest. The bend on the end is facing out, which I think is correct. Should I be concerned on this or will it probably be OK once everything else is in place? OR, should I flip it over so the bent piece is facing in OR try to just bend it back a little, keeping clear of the gear, of course.
Thanks for any comments!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Regarding the clutch, I was thinking about getting six of these plates from Mikes.
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...utch-friction-plates-oem-341-16321-09-00.html
I plan on using these for the steel:
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-steel-clutch-drive-plate-oem-341-16325-01-00.html
I will also get a set of these springs
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-xs-performance-clutch-spring-set-6-oem-90501-23142-00.html
If they end up too stiff, I may blend a few of the old springs in, per someone's earlier suggestion.
My clutch has the rubber spacer rings. Do I keep those or do something else?
Thanks!
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...utch-friction-plates-oem-341-16321-09-00.html
I plan on using these for the steel:
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-steel-clutch-drive-plate-oem-341-16325-01-00.html
I will also get a set of these springs
https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-xs-performance-clutch-spring-set-6-oem-90501-23142-00.html
If they end up too stiff, I may blend a few of the old springs in, per someone's earlier suggestion.
My clutch has the rubber spacer rings. Do I keep those or do something else?
Thanks!
If you use those MikesXS friction plates (3mm thick), you'll need to setup your clutch as a 74-79 '447' type, (7) 3mm frictions with (6) 1.4mm steels.
Original 70-73 '256' type clutches used (6) thicker frictions (3.5mm) with (5) thicker steels (1.6mm).
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs1-clutch-recommendations.51409/#post-539384
Be mindful of the total 'stackup thickness'.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1972-xs2-clutch-issue-need-help.32575/#post-331767
And, you can dispose of the rubber spacer o-rings. They're likely squashed, hard, and not doing their job anymore (plate spreaders). They were a short-lived stopgap trick anyways...
Original 70-73 '256' type clutches used (6) thicker frictions (3.5mm) with (5) thicker steels (1.6mm).
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs1-clutch-recommendations.51409/#post-539384
Be mindful of the total 'stackup thickness'.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1972-xs2-clutch-issue-need-help.32575/#post-331767
And, you can dispose of the rubber spacer o-rings. They're likely squashed, hard, and not doing their job anymore (plate spreaders). They were a short-lived stopgap trick anyways...
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Thanks a lot for the clutch info. I just order hi-po fiber plates and springs along with new steel plates. Have sidecover at machine shop to drill out kickstarter hole plug. Front brake will be sent to Buchanan this week for rim to be fitted. By the time I get it back, the plating should be finished. Keep in mind that I am fitting the front brake to get the bike into the configuration in which it ran Pikes Peak in 1976.
.
.
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
Any idea why they ran a drum front vs disc at PP?
Back in the day, a lot of us noticed that disc brakes seemed to always have some amount of contact/drag. Drum brakes would fully release and not drag. Perhaps others took note...
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
Twomany, I remember hearing that. I also remember hearing how some guys backed of the drum brake adjuster for less drag, then had little lever squeeze. Not good either.
I'd steer clear of those guys...
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
I don't have any firm idea why they ran a drum, but suspect that disks were still in the teething stages. It is also possible, as this was a one off run, that it might have been as simple as someone havng access to a Superhawk rim, complete with brake. The bearings fit the Cerani axle perfectly and it was an easy swap. I wondered why they didn't use an XS 650 drum, but I'm not sure what the axle diameter is.
Got the plug out of the kickstart hole today, so can do a rough mount up of the kickstarter.
Got the plug out of the kickstart hole today, so can do a rough mount up of the kickstarter.
Robbie Robertson
XS650 New Member
Hey David, Robbie here! Neat forum and of course TOPIC!!!!!!!! As far as why I ran a drum brake; I think this is what Joe had available. It has been so long ago. I cant remember if he put one on for me, or I borrowed it from somewhere. This was just a one time run up the mountain. He loaned me the bike and never expressed any interest to race it up the mountain himself. I did race the bike several times after the PP run. Raced it at Las Cruces' 3/8 mi car track, Sertoma Int Raceway, in the summer of '76. Took the drum off and ran the spool hub. You mentioned that Joe said this bike would run with the 750s. I need to clarify that. The builders over in Alamagordo, two engineers at White Sands Missile range and Lloyd Morrison, built three Yam 650s that I know of. One of them, they put a 750 kit on. One they did all kinds of race hop up engine work, and one they basically left stock. I got to race two of them, both the 650s. Never got to race the 750. The bike I raced at PP and you have is the one that was 'stock'. The other 650 was God Awfull Fast!!! I raced it at Speedway Park, Albuquerque's 3/8 mi car track, the track where the Unsers got their start. It was so fast, I thought for a long time it was the 750, but Joe straightened me out when I talked to him a year or so ago. He said it was also the bike he crashed at Adams Co. Colorado horse track when he lost his leg. I do not know the fate of the 750. I think he said, guys at the Alamagordo Yam shop turned it into a chopper! When I rode the PP bike, I remember I was not overly impressed with it being so fast. It felt like my Trackmaster 650 BSA. But I had already ridden that fast Yam at Albuquerque, and this one was not like that. Following, not good, pix from Sertoma. Hey David, you might be interested, here is a pic of my BSA, bought from Larry Baughman, was his race bike, this is his # plates
; he bought it from Sam Line, Amarillo. Built by Sam's dad.
Wow... that's all i got... after all theses years you run across a bike you used to race.... Wow!!
Welcome to the forum Robbie
Welcome to the forum Robbie
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Hey Rob!
I thought you would like this thread! These guys are soooo helpful!
I talked briefly with Joe a few months ago and we then tried to hook up again with no success. Might give him a try this week. I admit I was a little disappointed when I began to realized the bike was a 650, as Larry told me he thought it was a 750. But the reality is that the bike might not ever be raced again. I say that distinctly not excluding that it might happen, just dealing in probabilities. Joe seemed to think this was the hot 650, but I think you might be right. However, there is evidence of some porting in the exhaust and intake areas and it has the proper Mikuni carbs, identical to Kenny Roberts/ Wayne Rainey race bikes. I plan to just get it running first and then might open it up later to see what is inside.
Since I plan to ultimately put it on the street in "race " trim, I think the low weight will still make it fun to ride even if this is the engine closest to stock. If I want to scare myself, I have an old Ducati that only weighs about thirty pounds more that the Yam and makes over 100 hp at the rear wheel. I just want to bring this old gal back to life and go find some nice windy roads. Kickstarter seems to look OK. Fitting PAMCO ignition is next.
I'll keep you posted as I get her running and really love having you part of this journey. As I type this, I am in Winslow, AZ on the way back from Portales. Larry was in ABQ this time, so we didn't get to see each other. Buchanan called yesterday and my front wheel with brake should be ready in a few days. New 19" WM3 Borrani to match the 18" rear. I have to get the correct front tire from Japan. Am keeping the spool 19" front ready to put back on in case there is some flat trackin' in the future.
I thought you would like this thread! These guys are soooo helpful!
I talked briefly with Joe a few months ago and we then tried to hook up again with no success. Might give him a try this week. I admit I was a little disappointed when I began to realized the bike was a 650, as Larry told me he thought it was a 750. But the reality is that the bike might not ever be raced again. I say that distinctly not excluding that it might happen, just dealing in probabilities. Joe seemed to think this was the hot 650, but I think you might be right. However, there is evidence of some porting in the exhaust and intake areas and it has the proper Mikuni carbs, identical to Kenny Roberts/ Wayne Rainey race bikes. I plan to just get it running first and then might open it up later to see what is inside.
Since I plan to ultimately put it on the street in "race " trim, I think the low weight will still make it fun to ride even if this is the engine closest to stock. If I want to scare myself, I have an old Ducati that only weighs about thirty pounds more that the Yam and makes over 100 hp at the rear wheel. I just want to bring this old gal back to life and go find some nice windy roads. Kickstarter seems to look OK. Fitting PAMCO ignition is next.
I'll keep you posted as I get her running and really love having you part of this journey. As I type this, I am in Winslow, AZ on the way back from Portales. Larry was in ABQ this time, so we didn't get to see each other. Buchanan called yesterday and my front wheel with brake should be ready in a few days. New 19" WM3 Borrani to match the 18" rear. I have to get the correct front tire from Japan. Am keeping the spool 19" front ready to put back on in case there is some flat trackin' in the future.
More pictures, more history, more flat track!!!!!!! This is great!!!!!!
Scott
Scott
How great is this? Robbie himself telling us about his old race bike. Welcome to the forum, hope you hang around!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
It has been great to get the history of the bike from Rob. I wish I could get him and Joe out the Quail this year! I just found this great photo when I was looking for entry info for this year's Quail Motorcycle Gathering, which is May 5, by the way. Incredible show. The new wheel with brake should be finished soon. Buchanan is doing it. I think they are the best. Had to order the tire from Japan. Nobody has them here any more.
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Ok, here is the latest. I got my front wheel back from Buchanan, who did a great job. It is a Borrani WM3 x 19 to match the rear 18". The bike was raced at Pikes Peak in 1976, running a drum brake, so I am converting it to that setup. By the way, I will be able to convert it back to flat track spool very easily. I get the linkage back from the plater tomorrow, along with the TT pipes. I will then have Barnett make a brake cable for me. I just got new brake shoes and will probably get Race Tech to arc the shoes to the drum.
I am switching the shift to left side for this setup. My next step is to make a new lever to operate the rear brake. The current one interfered with the kickstarter, which seems to work fine otherwise. I had to move the right side peg forward a bit too.
I haven't finished the PAMCO ignition install, but just got some black plug wire to replace the yellow. I have both Champion and NGK caps, but am not sure which I will use at the show. I made a small bracket to hold the coil. I was making something more sophisticated, but decided to just do a simple mount that would use hose clamps, as that seemed more in tune with the character of the bike.
So far, so good. The show at the Quail is May 5, so need to keep focused.
I am switching the shift to left side for this setup. My next step is to make a new lever to operate the rear brake. The current one interfered with the kickstarter, which seems to work fine otherwise. I had to move the right side peg forward a bit too.
I haven't finished the PAMCO ignition install, but just got some black plug wire to replace the yellow. I have both Champion and NGK caps, but am not sure which I will use at the show. I made a small bracket to hold the coil. I was making something more sophisticated, but decided to just do a simple mount that would use hose clamps, as that seemed more in tune with the character of the bike.
So far, so good. The show at the Quail is May 5, so need to keep focused.
