If you want to really experience the '70s, get someone to push you around the back lot, while you dump the clutch.
It's not authentic 'till he's breaking a sweat...
It's not authentic 'till he's breaking a sweat...
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Help bring an old flat track racebike back to life!
- Thread starter Apexdc
- Start date
olddude13
tracker dude
That bike is bad ass! Keep it OG as much as you can!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Thanks for the comments gggGary. Today, I retarded the ignition as much as it would allow. I also took the carbs off and checked everything on them. I had new main and pilot jets and they were will clean. I might try enriching the pilot tomorrow, since the bike has no choke. I rigged a temporary LED red warning light that comes on when the ignition is on. That reminds me to shut it off when I quit kicking. The bike has a Shorai relatively high capacity battery. I cut the top off an old Yuasa and glued it to the Shorai, so it looks old school. Was just working and cleaning today, will try starting again tomorrow.
Rolled her out in the sun and took a few pix. Cosmetics are pretty well finished.
The bike can easily be converted back to sidepipe megaphones and a spool front wheel for flattrack configuration. I would also use the handpainted number panels. The ones on the bike now are as Rob Robertson ran Pikes Peak in 1976.
Thanks to everyone for the support!!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Thanks a lot, Old Dude! I just love the bike and hope you like the pix I hope to eventually put it on the street but just with a tiny Bates style headlight and a small period looking tail light, probably mounted on the shock base with the license plate. All very old school and removable.
I already have baffles in the pipes, but they are easily removable, too.
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Well, after LOTS of kicking (and cussin'), finally got that sucker to run for a bit. Had to fire it on ether, but then it ran for quite a while on gas. Wouldn't run at low revs, but sounded pretty bad ass in the mid-upper range. At this point, I'm not sure what the real issue is. I put the pilot jets back in it that it came with, but not sure if that helped or not. Didn't have a fan rigged, so it was getting pretty warm and I was getting short on time. But, at least I know it runs! Revs fast and has that sharp feeling of a high compression motor.
The oil seal is leaking badly at the kick starter. The starter shaft seems to have quite a bit of vertical play. The design of the oil seal doesn't look like it gives much support to the shaft and the seal looks like it has been torn by the downward force of the shaft against it. I have one more new seal, but didn't want to fit it until I felt that it was not just going to get torn like the one in the engine now. But, getting closer.
Considering taking her up to the Hanford show this weekend. Just not sure yet.
The oil seal is leaking badly at the kick starter. The starter shaft seems to have quite a bit of vertical play. The design of the oil seal doesn't look like it gives much support to the shaft and the seal looks like it has been torn by the downward force of the shaft against it. I have one more new seal, but didn't want to fit it until I felt that it was not just going to get torn like the one in the engine now. But, getting closer.
Considering taking her up to the Hanford show this weekend. Just not sure yet.
I don't recall *any* posts in here about servicing or replacing the kickstart bushing in the right sidecover. Cheapest/easiest solution I can think of is to heat the cover in a oven, perhaps 400°F, to loosen the bushing, then rotate the bushing 180° to get a fresh/unused surface for the kickstart shaft...
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
My bike doesn't have that bushing at all. It must have been taken out when they made the aluminum plug to close the kickstarter hole. What is the material? I assume I will need to make one, as it doesn't seem to be available as a separate part. I can probably freeze the bushing and heat the side cover for an interference fit or maybe set it in red LocTite or something similar. Load should be minimal, I would think.
I found one case on eBay that had a rear view, so I could see what the bushing looks like.
Thanks for putting me on the right path! I didn't know what I was dealing with.
Should be a simple lathe project. Steel, ID about 0.002"-0.004" larger than kickstart shaft, OD your choice. 0.002" interference fit, heat/cold inserted. Or sized for press fit with red loctite. Can't tell you about the flange.
The real question is: Is the existing hole as it was originally machined, or was it hogged-out, and now mis-located?
The real question is: Is the existing hole as it was originally machined, or was it hogged-out, and now mis-located?
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
Very sharp looker Apex.
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Thanks, Dave. I'm really lucky that one of my best high school buddies entrusted the bike to me. I sure appreciate the support that I have received on this forum.
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Wow! You just answered almost all of my questions. I really appreciate the images that you put together. They are incredibly helpful.
I am virtually certain that the original opening was not mangled. My key reasoning is that there is some nice machine work done on the bike that was clearly by someone who cared about what he was building. I just can't see him doing something hamfisted. I need to put a master clutch cylinder on my KTM for a ride this weekend, so probably won't pull the case off till next week.
The only two questions that I have remaining are if you know what the approximate height of the shoulder on the inside is and what material would you suggest for the bushing. Keep in mind that if this bike does 1000 miles in its lifetime, that will be a lot.
Looks like the shaft is around 0.984" (25mm) and the plug that was removed is about 1.228 (31 mm). So I am wondering if I might get a bronze bearing that is close and modify it. I can get a 25mm id, 35mm od, 23mm long, with 40mm flange that is 5mm high. The material is pressed copper and tin powders impregnated with a lubricating oil. Supplier is asbbearingsonline.com. How does that sound?
Again, thanks SO MUCH! You really got me on the right path.
After I get the kickstarter covered, I'll tackle the carbs and timing. Pretty sure I have major pilot circuitry issues. Howls like a banshee from about half throttle on up. Won't even start or run in lower ranges.
But, that is for another day.
Seriously consider Kshanson's offer, bushing from his broken cover. At least to get the dims...
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Sounds fantastic, 2M, but I somehow didn't know about the offer. Please tell me more. Thanks,
In your post from other thread:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/kick-start-seal-problems.29581/#post-549350
http://www.xs650.com/threads/kick-start-seal-problems.29581/#post-549350
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Ok, so here is the latest. A lot of problems have been solved! With the help of 2M and Kshanson, I got the starter bushing sorted out. I thought I had all the pieces based on looking at the parts manual, but there was a bushing that was pressed into the clutch cover that di't have a part number, so I missed it in rounding up all the parts to reinstall the kickstarter. Kshanson had a old damaged case that he was kind enough to get to me. I heated the case, pressed out the bushing, turned it down a few thousands and then installed it in my case.
I had missed the key on the cam when first installing my PAMCO ignition, but sorted that out.
Here is a bad video of the bike running. Nothing really to see, but you can hear it. I have baffles inserted in the TT pipes, but they are easily removable.
It revs really quickly and sounds very strong. It has massive compression and, frankly, takes a real boot to get it to turn over. Idle is pretty rough, so I suspect a good cam. The heads show some work on intake and exhaust. Overall, it seems pretty spunky in character. I plan on taking a test ride in the next few days. I don't think the bike should weigh much over 320 lbs or so, so I think it will have plenty of power to keep my attention!
I'm mounting a very small red LED to remind me when the ignition is on. It won't pull much power and it is to remind me to not leave the ignition on when the engine is not running. Apparently that is bad for the PAMCO system. By the way, Pete is incredible on support of his excellent product. I got the system with electron advance and it seems to work perfectly. I'm running about 35 degrees full advance.
Again, thanks for all the support on this thread.
I had missed the key on the cam when first installing my PAMCO ignition, but sorted that out.
Here is a bad video of the bike running. Nothing really to see, but you can hear it. I have baffles inserted in the TT pipes, but they are easily removable.
It revs really quickly and sounds very strong. It has massive compression and, frankly, takes a real boot to get it to turn over. Idle is pretty rough, so I suspect a good cam. The heads show some work on intake and exhaust. Overall, it seems pretty spunky in character. I plan on taking a test ride in the next few days. I don't think the bike should weigh much over 320 lbs or so, so I think it will have plenty of power to keep my attention!
I'm mounting a very small red LED to remind me when the ignition is on. It won't pull much power and it is to remind me to not leave the ignition on when the engine is not running. Apparently that is bad for the PAMCO system. By the way, Pete is incredible on support of his excellent product. I got the system with electron advance and it seems to work perfectly. I'm running about 35 degrees full advance.
Again, thanks for all the support on this thread.
For an LED indicator, you could up your game to a "sparkbright" voltmeter.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/nifty-little-voltage-monitoring-doo-dad.27642/#post-281101
http://www.xs650.com/threads/nifty-little-voltage-monitoring-doo-dad.27642/#post-281101
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Wow! What a cool little device. I found the UK website and will order one, for sure. Just perfect for my needs as I plan to run the bike initally on total loss. I have a nice little Shorai that has pretty good capacity. I cut the top off my old Yuasa and glued it on top for the proper old school look.
Thanks for the info on the LED. Very cool!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Working now on getting it streetable. Got a cool little 4.5" Bates style headlight. Will need to make a bracket, because I don't want to mess wiht the existing lower triple clamp. I have CB77 levers, so I think I will be able to get a Honda switch for the front brake. I won't use the rear brake on the street, so won't worry about a switch there. Will probably make a mount down low on the left shock for the license plate.
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Ok, looks like Prom Queen is nominated for the XS650 calendar! Voting stops on October 31,but I would really appreciate it if you would toss in a vote for this old gal!
http://www.xs650.com/threads/2019-xs650-calendar-vote-here.53352/
Thanks again for all the help in getting her running!
http://www.xs650.com/threads/2019-xs650-calendar-vote-here.53352/
Thanks again for all the help in getting her running!
Apexdc
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Here is the latest on Prom Queen. I now have all correct lights, including removable turn signals on a separate wiring harness. I had to build my own harness, two actually, to get what I wanted. It was my first time, but I actually enjoyed it. I have ridden the bike for very short distances a couple of times and now even have a temporary plate on it, but am starting to think that trying to run this engine on the street is not going to work. With no flywheel of any kind, it REALLY doesn't want to idle, except at pretty high RPM. I am still going to work with it and see how it goes.
Since I am also running a total loss ignition system, using a nice Shorai battery, I thought I would be fine for at least short runs. But it seems that it is knocking the battery down much faster than I expected. Seems to run fine, but something is dragging it down. No headlight or anything like that. I did put one of the SparkBright bulbs in to monitor voltage. It looks like a high beam indicator in the headlight. housing. As it doesn't look to hard to pull the engine, I am considering building a milder engine for the street. An additional complication is that I have had a hip replacement, so kicking the bike over is not a lot of fun. It has MASSIVE compression, so it really takes a boot to get it going.
If I go this way, I will keep the race engine intact, so I can make the full conversion back.
If I decide to build up another engine, are the mounts on the motors all the same or do I have to consdier that? The engine is a 71. Believe me, I'm not wanting to calm this thing down much. In fact, the current engine is a very hot 650, but I now know two guys that raced it and they both said it is pretty much only happy running flat out! Any thoughts out there????
I have attached some pix in street trim. It would take about a half day to convert it back to full flat track mode.
Since I am also running a total loss ignition system, using a nice Shorai battery, I thought I would be fine for at least short runs. But it seems that it is knocking the battery down much faster than I expected. Seems to run fine, but something is dragging it down. No headlight or anything like that. I did put one of the SparkBright bulbs in to monitor voltage. It looks like a high beam indicator in the headlight. housing. As it doesn't look to hard to pull the engine, I am considering building a milder engine for the street. An additional complication is that I have had a hip replacement, so kicking the bike over is not a lot of fun. It has MASSIVE compression, so it really takes a boot to get it going.
If I go this way, I will keep the race engine intact, so I can make the full conversion back.
If I decide to build up another engine, are the mounts on the motors all the same or do I have to consdier that? The engine is a 71. Believe me, I'm not wanting to calm this thing down much. In fact, the current engine is a very hot 650, but I now know two guys that raced it and they both said it is pretty much only happy running flat out! Any thoughts out there????
I have attached some pix in street trim. It would take about a half day to convert it back to full flat track mode.
