HELP with electronics conversion

[topshelf333]

So I just recently acquired a 1979 XS650 Special from an old farmer (for $75) and am in the beginning stages of the build. I am going to replace all factory electrical components, and go kick start only. It's starting to make my head hurt to sift though all the different information, and choose the correct parts.

Ultimate High Output Ignition+ E-Advancer/PMA Package
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/24-2613.html

Will this kit allow me to go battery-less?

Ive also seen the Battery eliminator capacitor for sale at TC Bros, but it says its not for use with the Electronic advance.

TC Bros. Battery Eliminator Capacitor Kit for XS650 PMA Charging System
http://www.tcbroschoppers.com/battery-eliminator-capacitor-kit-for-xs650-pma.html

Please help me out, and let me know what i am missing here.

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[topshelf333]

Have also looked at the Sparx capacitor, but am unaware if this is compatible with the electronic advancer, or not?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Sparx capacitor battery eliminator
http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/sparx-capacitor-battery-eliminator-replaces-lucas-2mc-54170009.html

 

[scabber]

Before you dump $600 in your barn it would be a good Idea to get it running first. That would tell you if the motor is good. Some pictures of the bike would be nice.

 

[topshelf333]

Engine is seems perfectly fine. Has 165 lbs per cylinder, has weak spark currently. Carbs are terribly plugged, but i am going to do a 2-1 manifold, and run a brand new VM36. No leaks anywhere, seals look good from what i can see. I've been building, and fixing my whole life, so I'm confident this is going to be perfectly fine. Also may end up doing a big bore, and cam over the winter, but want to get the electronics swapped over, get the new carb, and take care of all the fab work so i can powder coat everything when we have some open time between customer work.

Ill get some picture posted when i get back over there to our shop.

Have any info pertaining to the question? Looking to get all the Electronics ordered up ASAP.

 

[XSLeo]

That kit will let you run with out a battry. With all the trouble a lot of people have had lately I would stick with the stock system for now.
I'm not much of a fan of the PMA's The only advantage is the ability to run with out a battery, the rest is just hype.
If I was going to go with a PMA I would choose Hugh's Hand Built for one. Much better customer support than Mike's.
I doubt the brand of capacitor matters much. It's purpose is to stabilize the regulators out put to the right voltage. Without the stabilizing effect of the cap or a battery the reg tends to run wild.
If this happens then the Pamco can be at risk.
Most of the issues I have read about concerning the e-advancer Pamco and a PMA/cap are low voltage while kick starting. Not enough voltage at kick rpms. This is were a battery can improve things.
I agree with scabber, I would get it running as it is and see what you have. Weak spark can be low voltage as in weak battery or dirty points.
Leo

 

[topshelf333]

Appreciate the advice, but i am getting rid of points. Just flat out replacing all electronics.

 

[pamcopete]

topshelf333,

Well, the only instructions I would offer is the same that I offer for all PMA capacitor setups, and that is to temporarily wire the coil and PAMCO red wire to a stand alone battery, sitting on the floor, not connected to the bikes electrical system. This is done for three reasons:

1. If the PMA does not produce a usable voltage, you will kick yourself to death and the engine won't start.
2. The engine does start with the ignition wired to the bike, but it produces 20+ Volts and fries the ignition along with the electrical system of the bike.
3. The capacitor is wired in reverse and explodes when the engine starts and the PMA produces some voltage.

You have to get the engine to start and run to make sure the PMA is working properly. Also, installing both the PMA and the PAMCO at the same time means that you have two balls in the air. I would also recommend that you install the PAMCO first so you can use the timing marks on the stock rotor regardless of whether it is working or not.

 

[topshelf333]

Appreciate the info Pete. So after testing with a battery, and getting everything dialed in, i will be able to wire everything up, and run without a battery?

Main thing i am wondering, is why the TC Bros capacitor says its not compatible with the E-Advancer.

Thanks again guys.

 

[figure8]

Not sure why it says you can't run e-advance with a capacitor, I know someone who is. None the less, as Pete said go in steps. Wire the Pamco first then get it dialed in. Then wire in the PMA, checking voltage is crucial here. Get it up over 3,000 rpm's and make sure the PMA reg is doing its job. After that wire one thing at a time. It's easier to take one step back than trying to find the source of 6 different problems. Hope that helps.

 

[topshelf333]

Really appreciate the info guys. Helps a lot. I have been working on engines my entire life, but i am new to the XS650 scene, so it helps to pull in expertise from some guys who have been down this road before.

 

[figure8]

That's what the forum is for, glad to help. Keep us posted.

 

[topshelf333]

After doing some reading on the Hugh's Handbuilt PMA Page he recommends using a Sparx brand capacitor, and either stock points, or a pamco, as the Boyer doesn't work well battery-less. Good info to have in case anyone else is looking. thinking i will go with a Hugh's PMA.

Does anyone know if the Electronic advance is a good add on? I feel like the mechanical advance isnt a common failure... anyone care to elaborate on this?

 

[figure8]

You'd be hard pressed to find someone to say the e advance is a bad idea. You can make the mechanical advance work sure, it's really subjective to each persons situation.

 

[topshelf333]

Agreed. I just want to spend the money on a build, so instead of constantly messing with points, or advance weights, the bike just starts, and runs plain, and simple. Plus i own a Custom Coatings shop, so it's going to be a bit of show bike. Pretty bike + bike that doesn't start, and run well = big paperweight turd.

 

[member3480]

Sounds like you have a good plan. If there is any help that I can do on info you can contact me at DADDYGCYCLES@YAHOO.COM. I have built more than 5 motors with Pete's stuff PMA from Mikes and big bore kits. I also do wire harnesses custom to bikes and have use SPRAX on bikes but listen to Pete it is much easier to setup with a battery then get all the bugs out and the go SPRAX. BUT I tell all who use them BUY TWO and keep the second one on bike if it goes you push...

 

[topshelf333]

Thanks man. Appreciate you reaching out. This is the kind of stuff i like to see on the forums. I will certainly take your advice, and will more than likely be bothering you at some point for the inside advice.

 

[member3480]

If you contact me at the DADDYGCYCLES@YAHOO.COM I also will supply my phone number so if you get stuck or just need a tip its one on one. I have helped in the past on some cool builds with ideas that others may not even think of. My CRAZY ASS BRAIN is a 24/7 at 200mph LOL
Here is one that I helped JD with out of CAL very good bike builder but we changed up the foot controls and boy did it make a difference. He also ran one of my harnesses on another build but we went under the bike with wires.
First is his buid the rest are just a few of my builds
Good luck on your build and email anytime
Rich

 

[topshelf333]

Awesome. Thanks man. I like the first one the most. What size wheels are on that beauty?

 

[member3480]

21" front and rear . This dude makes some awesome bikes.

 

[topshelf333]

So, I got the tear down underway, got the hard tail squared up, tacked all in place, and ran a couple beads on the top rails. Starting to look like a decent bike after all. All these parts will end up in our oven behind the bike at some point.

Also the steel tubing in back is just tacked in place to prevent warping while welding up the frame, and not some strange new age axle sleeve. lol

Any recommendations on a springer front end that will accept the factory wheel mag wheel. I will be drilling out the wheels like a lot of people have done, and would like to keep them. I would like the springer to have a 2 inch drop from factory as well.


Thanks guys