Help with where to start.....

[JRWilliamsQM]

I did wonder what they meant by slow running needles on the carb, considering I am rather inexperienced with carburetors. Those pictures solved my question... the carbs I took off had screws, the cars I just put on have the plug, I'm thinking if I take those carb out I could rebuild the old carbs using the parts from the new, aside from that plug to screw difference, they seem identical. I'm going to check my compression in a bit as well to make sure that's there before I sink time into tearing the carbs back out. Any other checks?? Thanks!!

 

[Bob Kelly III]

A quick and dirty compression check for ya.....
pull the sparkplugs.... pput then in the lead and ground thenm on the engine.
turn the key on and put your thunb over the spark plug hole on one side, hit the starter .
it should pop your thumb off the spark plug hole ... give your thumb some pressure and see if you can stop it from popping your thumb off
if you can't your golden... if you can it's questionable
but if you can put good pressure on the sparkplug hole and the compression pops the thumb off on both sides you got compression
..... this ISN"T Accurate ! it's just to give you an idea .... a press on Compression guage will tell you exactly how much compression ya got
thread in is better but more expensive.
I have a gutt feeling your bike and mine are suffering from the same illness..... the carbs that were spairs may or may not be any good
you don't know..... the ones that were originally on the bike are probably gummed up from sitting a long time
I thing the low speed passages may be plugged OR just need that screw turned a 1/4 turn out......
if you've already cleaned the carbs try the richness screws next.....
that's what i'm planning on doing today .
good luck !
Bob.........

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

Would you suggest I pull both plugs out and thumb test one at a time, or just pull one out and thumb test at a time? Or does it matter?

 

[5twins]

It sounds like your choke feed jets may be plugged. If they are, the chokes won't work. You need the choke for a cold start on these, even in warm weather. Granted it doesn't have to be on for long in the warm weather but you do need it.

The choke jet is located near the bottom of a bored passageway along the front edge of the float bowl. It draws it's fuel through a feed hole very near the bottom of the bowl. If there's any crap in your bowl, there's a good chance it will get sucked in and plug the jet when you turn the choke on .....

Here's how to check it .....

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

Well folks... the prognosis is not good... I'm completely baffled... did the thumb test, both sides have pretty good compression, not as much as I expected, but I couldn't keep my thumb plugging the hole while it cranked, kept pushing me off... sparks good on both sides... put a 1/4 can of carb cleaner in each cylinder before putting the plugs back in and expected either a short lived turnover, or an explosion, but no change at all lol not a difference, still just kept cranking with no difference in noise smoke or anything.... even if I fine tune the carb and clean it up to where everything else is good, it wouldn't solve the not turning over because the carb cleaner should've caused something .... not sure what to try from here....

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Yes pull both plugs at the same time for the thumb compression test..... the faster it spins over the better
....
Bob........

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

There is a light at the end of the tunnel!! I didn't take into account the amount of time it took me to fill each cylinder with carb cleaner, so by the time I got everything back in to start, most of it would've evaporated, so I tried 1 cylinder at a time today... SHE FIRED... only for a millisecond and let out a roar with some throttle and died but at least now I know she can do it, so next week I'll start cleaning up the carbs and get them set back to a good spot, put fresh gas in her and see where it leads. THANK YOU ALL for the suggestions and comments and keep them coming. This is my first bike that was extremely affordable and a lot of fun so far taking apart and cleaning and refurbishing and I look forward to having her running for this summer... I may be a hopeless Football fan too because I've customized some of the details with DETROIT LIONS decal and theme.... like them, she may not start good and might not end up good but she sure will keep me entertained in the middle there!!

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

A project that holds my loyalty 1 win and 2 losses at a time...

 

[mrtwowheel]

Whoa!!!!! You are pouring carb cleaner into the cylinders?

 

[mrtwowheel]

There is a light at the end of the tunnel!! I didn't take into account the amount of time it took me to fill each cylinder with carb cleaner, !

 

[fredintoon]

I did wonder what they meant by slow running needles on the carb, considering I am rather inexperienced with carburetors. Those pictures solved my question... the carbs I took off had screws, the cars I just put on have the plug, I'm thinking if I take those carb out I could rebuild the old carbs using the parts from the new, aside from that plug to screw difference, they seem identical. I'm going to check my compression in a bit as well to make sure that's there before I sink time into tearing the carbs back out. Any other checks?? Thanks!!

Hi JR,
those two carbs in the photo are identical. Both have the vertical slow running needle up front.
It's that one carb still has the EPA-mandated brass plug atop the needle.
What that plug did when the bike was new was to stop you adjusting the needle from it's original stupid-lean setting.
What it does now is demonstrate that the carbs' slow-running passages ain't been cleaned since that bike left the factory.
I'd say your next check is to rip those plugs out of there, remove the needles complete with spring, plain washer and tiny o-ring
(fish 'em out with a bent paperclip if they don't come out with the needle) then do a complete tear-down & clean on the complete carb.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Thanks Fredintoon ! ya beat me to it !
I bet that bike would run the way it is ,if the pilot jets were screwed out on the newer carbs.... their probably not gummed up like the others just drill the a 1/8" to 3/16" hole through the brass plugs being carefull not to go deep with that drill bit. screw in a sheet metal screw and pull them out....
mine were hard to get out so I used a 3" drywall screw and a flat crowbar on the valve cover that poped them out easy....
my air screws were set from the factory at 3/4 of a turn out from their seats... personally I have no idea how it ever ran like that ...but it did
my screws now are at 3 1/2 turns out from their seats and it runs good now....
i did that with the carbs still on the bike.... so I had a way to get the plugs out so I could adjust those screws Stupid EPA stuff anyway !
and I do hope you didn't try to FILL the cylinders of the engine with CARB CLEANER !!!! AURGH ! if you did squirt a bunch of WD-40 in there to give it some lubrication !!!!! if you ment the carbs not the cylinders thats diferent following up with WD-40 on everything is a good idea anyway
....... WD-40 is our friend ! LOL
....keep us posted please take pictures too !
....Bob...........

 

[Bob Kelly III]

i just re read this... JR... Don't use carb cleaner in the cylinders..... carb cleaner is for the Carburators only..... it's not Quick start !
WD-40 will act as a mild quick start if needed and not blow the headgasket as easily....
use Carb cleaner when you have the carbs off and appart on the bench ...soak everything it takes the gum and varnish off left over by the old gasoline that dried in the carbs..... Definately read the Carb threads from this forum they are very handy and you can't go wrong !
pull the spark plugs again and clean them out with a can of QUICK START not carb cleaner. don't squirt quickstart in the spark plug hole and expect it to start it'll flood it ! a single short squirt at the carb opening is all you need for a 10 second run if your pilot passages are clear they will take over from there.....
.... UGH carb cleaner in the cylinders ? shudder! what possessed you to do that ? i mean OOOOH ! OWIE... MOMMA ! LOL
you could make the rings stick to the pistons , but sense it evaporates fast there is little chance of that ! just don't do it again ! slappy handy ! tisk,tisk.
heheheheh
hang in there you'll get that thing going , just keep after it !
Bob..........

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

I probably over exaggerated on the amount of carb cleaner into the cylinder, it wasn't enough to damage, but it was enough to combust to determine that the engine is WORTH cleaning and pulling apart, instead of spending all my time fixing everything else that may not be broke... in the long run I plan too, but for cost effectiveness I needed to make sure the engine would turn over under the right conditions, and now I know it will, I'm going to pull off the carbs and clean them up good and set it back to default so to speak, I'm going to clean up what I can on the engine and area and frequently change the oils in order to clean her out good. It will be some work but at least now I know it's worth the effort on this motor so I don't have to go looking for another engine. lol I DO appreciate all the help though, can someone tell me what the deal is with 2 identical looking oil plugs underneath the bike? Is there also 2 fill points for oil? And what is a good amount of oil to refill with.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

I just read that.... 2.25 quarts when changing the oil filters and all.....or was it 2.5 quarts ? somewherein there anyway....
so you were using the carb cleaner as Quick start.... thats sneeky , never hurd of that before !!!! I use allot of quick start myself
as my entire engine collection is OLD ! LOL .... i have learned the hard way though ...don't over do it ! you can blow a head gasket !
.....I have no idea about the 2 oil plugs ! sorry i do know there are 2 oil filters, one in the oil sump and one on the sideplate !
hope that helps !
C ya !
Bob.........

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

She's running!! Making an awful smacking noise every so often, I have a feeling only 1 cylinder is firing properly, I will definitely need to add more oil and get the carbs worked on but she is firing up and will run with the choke on, and increasing throttle increases the rpm of the engine so she's working right, just needs cleaning up and fine tuning. The Carbs are leaking a bit from the overfill underneath, and the left carb starting pouring out gas into the air box when I switched the tank over to reserve in attempt to stop the flow without the off... will keep updated with my progress as it persists

 

[Bob Kelly III]

More than likely its dropping a cylinder it seams after sitting they like to do that !
when you pull your carbs don't do what I did and just fix the float and slap them back in..... do a complete rebuild including a good soak in carb cleaner
and dissasemble every piece and blow it out real good with compressed air ....then re assemble !
I'm headding out to remove my carbs once again because I didn't do that in the first place ! the chokes not working right so they gott'a come off AGAIN !
.....
Good work ! as you know now, it'll run ! now to make it Run Right !!!!!!
keep after it and you'll win !
Bob.........

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

Yea, last night I completely disassenmbled the other set of carbs I have for it, soaked it up, sprayed it out, set it back to sync visually even, I had issues getting the float pin out but was able to clean it and blow it out pretty good otherwise. Put it all back together and I'm considering swapping it back onto the bike. Today the other cylinder finally started to fire, I could tell mostly because the exhaust pipe on the left side finally got hot, I think it just needs some good run time to clean things out, is there a separate type of oil to use for the crank case? And does anyone know if I need to fill oil anywhere else?? Thanks!

 

[Bob Kelly III]

most guys use 10w-40w in their bikes some o'l timers like me use 30w because that's all they have !
and I think that big dip stick is the only place to check and add oil at..... if you put too much oil in lay it on its left side and dump some out.
or pull the drain plug for a microsecond... its big and will dump it all out in a hart beat !!!!!
...DO not ver fill the engine with oil , just up to the full mark is fine.... too much oil in a bike will cause it to blow out of the breather and that goes onto the rear tire.... My Mom was crippled because of that ! the fall busted the cartalage in her knee ! in those days it was grin and bear it !
.... so you now know ! LOL
... have fun but don't kill yourself !
Bob............

 

[JRWilliamsQM]

The next step is going to be brakes... electrics all work good as they should, but when I press the pedal... nothing. Lol thoughts on where to start??