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How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Punkskalar, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    Ok gang,

    Everyone with an XS650 should do this swap. Your stock charging system WILL FAIL YOU at some point, and it is $$$$ to fix, and you'll likely have trouble again. The stock XS650 charging system is terrible for many reasons.

    Those reasons being:

    1: Requires 3-4 Amps just to "Turn-On" the system. Sucks for almost dead batteries
    2: Won't charge at idle
    3: Uses a brushed alternator style system - Charging requires contact of moving parts
    4: Requires a battery
    5: 30 Year old charging rotors are wound with materials that are starting to decay and ground out.
    5.5: Replacement rotors are $$$$
    6: Regulators fail without notice and are very expensive.
    7: Wiring is a nightmare, and most online diagrams are not accurate.
    8: Parts are not exactly scarce, but no one seems to have good luck mixing old parts and new.


    Reason to swap to the good stuff:

    1: Will charge at idle
    2: Non-Contact system (nothing to wear out)
    3: No Battery required, will need a condenser if not using a battery.
    4: Simple wiring. 3 wires out of the stator to the Regulator. Then 2 wires to the battery/condenser.
    5: Never be stranded with a dead battery, will always kick start.
    6: Cheaper to swap than to fix stock system. Lots of guys are doing it for $150ish...
    7. You can sell the stock stuff (if it still works) to some schmuck on Ebay and probably pay for this whole swap plus a cheap 6 pack!!


    Here is what you will need:

    Used Parts:

    1. YFZ350 Banshee Stator Bracket - Usually about $10-20 on Ebay Any year will work.
    2. 3 Phase Stator -Can be found anywhere from $20 on up on ebay. Will put a list of useable stators below.
    3. YFZ350 Banshee Flywheel. Any year will work
    [​IMG]



    New Parts: Can Be Found on my Bloghttp://hughshandbuilt.blogspot.com/p/xs650-permanent-magnet-alternator.html

    1. Mounting Plate for Stator. I sell the one shown here, contact me via PM or Email at the end of the how to and hardware
    2. 3 Phase Regulator - I have a connection to get these new cheaper than most can be found used.
    3. 5/8"x3/16" woodruff key - Can be found at Lowe's Hardware for under $1
    4. Use your stock battery, or a capacitor. OR, you can have the best of both worlds and use this tiny battery that Fellow XS650 Rider JH282 has sourced. It works very well on his daily rider, and will fit just about anywhere. According to JH282, it is smaller than the capacitor you would need as well, and still has a battery reserve for when the bike isn't running. http://cgi.ebay.com/12Volt-0-8amp-h...-/290485739998?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item43a24ca1de

    [​IMG]

    My kit will keep you from doing something aweful like this:eek: JB welded stator bracket to the cases, no chance to replace the seals, and generally a terrible idea... This is a motorcycle, not a middle school science project!!! (This was a test for Mr Rigg's engine to see if the stator was even going to work, no hate, just don't do this ;)) I have had LOTS people confused about JB'ing the bracket to the engine as they thought that was the way to go. After reading other threads and seeing the JB weld fail, I knew something different and inexpensive had to be done. I have even had to clean the JB off of 1 guys engine he sent me to re-phase because he had done it the same way :eek: Talk about a mess... DO NOT JB WELD THE BRACKET TO THE CASE
    [​IMG]


    Let's Get Started :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  2. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    First things first, remove the side cover and pegs, controls, etc... that are in the way. If I have to show you how to do this, you'll be needing to step away from the motorcycle and call your Mom to come help :D

    Remove the alternator. Most of you will have Phillips head screws that are tight as hell, feel free to use Vice Grips, they are going in the trash!!!
    [​IMG]

    Remove the 17mm Nut holding the rotor on. I use a cordless impact.
    [​IMG]

    Then you'll need to remove the rotor. I happen to have a puller, but if you don't have one, use a 2 or 3 jay puller and beat that sucker with a hammer. It was probably bad to start with so its going in the trash as well.
    [​IMG]

    Pull the rotor.
    [​IMG]

    Then pull the pin at the bottom of the case.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    You are now ready to start assembling the good stuff.

    I missed a step here, but the Banshee Stator Bracket will have a couple of cast tabs on it. Basically anything that is larger than the O.D. of the adapter plate will be ground off. Use a grinder, hacksaw, file, belt sander, it doesn't really matter, just clean those things off. You can see the "fresh" marks where I removed the material. Assemble the Banshee Stator Bracket to the Aluminum Disk supplied in the kit using the supplied hardware. No washers are needed, but a little red lock-tite is recommended.

    Once assembled and modified, it should look like this. (Hardware will be included in the package, just not shown here)
    [​IMG]

    Then bolt the stator to the previously assembled bracket. Make sure the wires are free and come out of the bottom of the assembled unit. It should look like this.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    At this time you will need to modify the Woodruff key mentioned in the list of needed parts. The Banshee Flywheel uses a 3/16" key, while the XS650 crankshaft uses a smaller key. this took about 5 minutes with a good file. Its a small part to photograph, I'll try to show lots of pics.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When you install it on the crank, it should fit like this. Feel free to loosely slide on the flywheel to test fit as you are working on this step. I like to use a little grease to hold these in place during final assembly.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    nce you have the key installed on the crank, its time to install the Stator Assembly. Use the supplied bolts and washers. It should look like this. Use a little lock-tite during final assembly, but right now you are just mocking it all up... There is an important step later you'll not want to miss :)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now, you'll want to make sure that the wiring is secured. I have found that not all stators are wired equally, so I didn't have the disks cut for this operation, its all on you. Don't worry, its easy.

    Slip the supplied wire clamp over the 3 stator wires and position it in a place out of the way and routed to where they won't be clamped, rubbed, chaffed, etc..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You'll be needing to locate a good spot to drill and bolt down the clamp. I usually drill and tap the plate to 10NC24 but you can use a through hole and the supplied nut in some locations. You may have to remove the plate for this operation, hence not installing the bolts with lock-tite just yet
    [​IMG]

    Finish routing the wires and use a grommet to protect them.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    Now you will just be slipping on the Banshee Flywheel, carefully lining up the woodruff key to the notch on the flywheel as you go. Make sure the wiring is free and clear, but there is plenty of room, so don't stress too much.
    [​IMG]

    Now you'll be ready to pull the old alternator cover off and steal the timing marks off of it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You'll find that the stock timing tabs will fit nicely on the side cover. Drill and tap a 4mmx.070 hole and use the stock screw to fasten it to the cover. You can again use a through hole and a bolt/nut if you want.
    [​IMG]


    Slip the side cover back over the cases. Locate TDC by looking through the spark plug hole, using a special tool whatever you want. Mark the Flywheel with a corresponding cut to T on the timing tab. It doens't have to be perfect, because once you start the bike back up, you can slide the tab back and forth while using your timing light to the "Fire" location. I marked it first with a marker/pencil
    [​IMG]

    Then I cut a notch into the flywheel using a dremel, file, whatever...
    [​IMG]


    NEW - Hugh's HandBuilt PMA Kits come with a simple timing sticker for those who don't have the stock timing tab... Simple and easy! - just an FYI for those looking into this mod...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  6. Punkskalar

    Punkskalar Hugh's HandBuilt

    Wiring is now the the only major thing left. Hook up the 3 wires coming from the Stator to the 3 yellow wires on the regulator. It doesn't matter which wire go where, just make sure all the yellow wires are used. Red goes to the battery/condenser and green is a ground. You are all done :cheersmate:
    [​IMG]

    Obviously you'll need to mount the regulator somewhere, but this is all for the how-to.

    Had lots of folks who wanted a wiring diagram. This is ONLY for the charging system, the rest of the wiring on your ride is up to you.
    [​IMG]

    Reinstall your cover, route wires away from the chain (duh) and reinstall your controls and all that mess you took off to get started.


    NOTES: If you are using a TCI ignition, you'll need to change over to points or Pamcopete's awesome setup before doing this modification. You'll get the timing working first, get it all timed properly and use the timing marks from your setup to reinstall the timing tab on the side cover.

    Here is the list of sourced Stators that should work. I've never had to buy a new one for any reason, they work just fine used off of ebay/CL. I stole this list from another source, be sure to double check bolt patterns and that a Stator has 3 Yellow wires coming out of it (mine had 3 black, but it works just the same, you just need a 3 Phase Stator)

    MAKE SURE TO GET THE CORRECT PART NUMBERS FROM A STATOR!!! THIS LIST IS NOT 100% ACCURATE. CORRECT STATOR MEASUREMENTS SHOULD BE 103mm X 42mm X 20mm
    YAMAHA (ESR080)

    Honda CBR600 F1 86-90
    Honda VF500 84-85
    Kawasaki VN800 Vulcan 00-05
    Kawasaki VN800 Classic 01-06
    Kawasaki VN800 Drifter 01-05
    Kawasaki ZL600 86-87
    Kawasaki ZX600, ZX-6 Ninja, ZZR600 85-04 [!!NOT ZX6-R, ZX6-RR 98+!!]
    Suzuki VS800 92-07
    Suzuki VX800 90-93
    Suzuki VZ800 97-04
    Suzuki LT250 91-96
    Suzuki LT4WD 91-96
    Suzuki LT-F4WD 91-98
    Yamaha XV250 Route66 88-90
    Yamaha XT600 90-95


    TAGS: XS650 XS 650 Big Bore 750 Kit Charging System Permanent Magnet Alternator Banshee Hugh'sHandBuilt Hugh Owings Chopper Bobber Wiring Swap Stator Rotor PMA 3 Phase Regulator
     
  7. Ironsled77

    Ironsled77 XS650 GRAND HACK

    Here's one I can use on my next bike. I feel like a stalker: )
     
  8. Sullen Merc

    Sullen Merc XS650 Addict

    Great write up on this. Just waiting on my last few parts ;)
     
  9. rwingsfan

    rwingsfan Xs 650 Dummy

    Best mod you can do IMHO. Don't think I would ride a XS without it...
     
  10. You said that the rest of the wiring is up to us, if I have a stock bike and I just want to upgrade the charging system, is there something else to do ?
     
  11. malloym

    malloym XS650 Addict

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    i've asked this question so many times... how are you wiring the rest of the bike... all that diagram shows is the charging system and is basically useless.
     
  12. rwingsfan

    rwingsfan Xs 650 Dummy

    Why is this "useless"? The charging system is basically a seperate system from the rest of the wiring just like ignition. I break wiring down to three curcuits, charging, ignition and everything else. The charging system charges the battery and supplies electrical power to everything. There are tons of wiring diagrams out there both simplified and stock that tell the story. Hey, if I can wire a bike...anyone can, it's really not very hard. :thumbsup:


     
  13. Like I said,my question is for a stock bike. So, I would use the stock wiring harness.
     
  14. jcadwell

    jcadwell XS650 Member

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    Greetings Hugh. I just ordered one of your regulators. Can you provide the external dimensions, hole locations, and hole sizes? I've got my CNC plasma cutter making parts, and I'd like to finish up the battery box ASAP.
     
  15. thrashin

    thrashin XS650 Addict

    Did you get the banshee stator bracket? If so then than you'll have all the demisions you need between the bike and the bracket. if not than hit up Hugh. He sales the adapters.
     
  16. jcadwell

    jcadwell XS650 Member

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    Not looking for the adapter. I'm looking for a layout drawing for the regulator he sells. I'm going a different direction with the permanent magnet alternator, and bought just the regulator.
     
  17. thrashin

    thrashin XS650 Addict

    sorry, I get cha now. If I had it in front of me I'de spec it out for ya. It's a 5 wire setup. 3 yellows. If you havent received a response by tomorrow, I'll pm you the dems and the hole pattern. I just got one from Hugh, but it's not with me at the moment.

    edit: btw this thing is a bit of a heat sink and I would imagine it would like some air on it.
     
  18. xjwmx

    xjwmx It's just the unknown. Top Contributor

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    No! All the rest can be the same as stock, or one of the simplified diagrams usually used with the stock charging system. From the battery (or capacitor) on down to the tiniest dash light it can be the same as stock. It would be helpful if he called out a regulator or two though.
     
  19. jcadwell

    jcadwell XS650 Member

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    It will be externally mounted on the battery box, but hopefully in a channel that makes it flush with the outside... It all makes sense in my head.
     
  20. rwingsfan

    rwingsfan Xs 650 Dummy

    You can use a regulator for any of the stators listed, and they plug right in! For example I used a 1985 Honda VF500 stator and regulator, easy-peasy


     
    BigJimmyW13 likes this.

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