How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)

this may be a very silly question but if you're building a bike from the ground up can you do a pma swap before firing the engine for the first time? Or is it better to get everything together and then swap to pma?

Not a silly question. If you follow Pamcopete's advice, you can run the bike with just the battery hooked up to the ignition. Then you can easily add the PMA. But, you'll want some timing marks to set time if you have just installed new ignition. You can always leave the PMA disconnected, set up the timing marks, fire up the engine (using a stand alone battery as per Pamcopete) and then get the engine running proper / idling / etc...

The just hook up the PMA and test to see that your system is charging, and you are done. No need to build around the old charging system at all.
 
It can be done either way. On the PMA you need to find TDC and put marks on the rotor and left side cover to show TDC, idle timing and full advance. The kits come with instructions that tell how this is done.
Once you have these marks then timing is done the same as stock.
Leo
 
Well, the reason I suggest getting the engine running first with a battery to power the ignition system, PAMCO or any other system, is because the PMA may not work properly with the first start after installation, especially with a capacitor setup. In the case of a capacitor, you could kick your leg off, but if the PMA was not installed properly, the engine will never start and there is no way to troubleshoot the PMA because the engine isn't running....:wtf: and you don't know why the engine won't start because you have not seen it run with the new ignition system...:wtf: Like, "Catch 22"...:laugh:

If you have a battery or capacitor setup, it's possible that the PMA will "wake up" producing a destructive high voltage greater than 20 Volts that can fry the ignition system along with the rest of the electrical system so with the ignition running independently from the PMA, at least you can restart the engine and do some trouble shooting. If you hook up both the ignition and the PMA for the first start you are literally putting all your eggs in one basket....:doh:

So, wire the ignition system to an independent battery even before you install the PMA. Start the engine, get it running smoothly, shut it down and then do the PMA. If you do all this with the stock rotor still installed, you can set the timing using the timing mark on the rotor and stator. That timing will not change when you remove the stock stator and rotor, so the engine is good to go as soon as you install the PMA. You can use whatever timing marks are available with the PMA to verify the timing while also verifying that the timing marks with the PMA are correct as well.

So, my general approach to major work is to make it work before you break it....:thumbsup:
 
thanks guys for the great advice! a good amount of this is still over my head. Pete does this have anything to do with my pm also?! lol But basically if I swap to a pamco for instance and then dot he pma swap, could I run this setup kickstart only?
 
If you follow Pamcopete's advice, you can run the bike with just the battery hooked up to the ignition.

I read through the thread and didn't see this explained. I have the Pamco on, all wiring at the local landfill. What would that look like to just wire in the ignition circuit? Plan is to do Hugh's PMA, Pamco, batteryless with cap and condenser, kick-only. Just wanting to get her running and start wiring out from there so I can see if the stock charging system works well enough to get e few miles out of her while I save up for the PMA.
 
ok so very quick question: Where do i test how the PMA is charging? I'm curious what points i actually have to touch to get the proper reading.

for reference i have the pamco ignition running on its own battery and hughs PMA kit installed. just not sure what to touch where hah.
 
You test the output of any charging system at the output of the reg/rec. On the positive wire and the negative wire. The colors depend on your reg/rec.
If you have the reg/rec output hooked to a battery, check at the battery terminals.
If you have the reg/rec output hooked to a cap, then check at the cap terminals.
Once you determine what the output voltage is, and it is correct, then you can hook the Pamco into the bikes power.
Leo
 
any info on installing with a rephased motor??
do I need to make 2 timing marks at TDC for each piston?

bottom end is together and I am going to try to finish up the PMA install tomorrow

thanks
 
any info on installing with a rephased motor??
do I need to make 2 timing marks at TDC for each piston?

bottom end is together and I am going to try to finish up the PMA install tomorrow

thanks

MechanicScott,

The timing on the rephased engine is still based off of the #1 Cylinder (charging system side) - just like any other modern gasoline engine. Set it to TDC on #1, make your timing marks, and you are ready to time the engine. Just as simple as the stock configuration honestly :thumbsup:

Hugh
 
drake
I would double check that banshee stator that you posted from ebay. i dont think it will work with xs650. I purchased my flywheel and stator bracket (really cheap) from the banshee forum in the for sale section. I would suggest getting the stator, reg, and bracket from Hugh. Good Luck
 
drake900, The Banshee stator doesn't put out enough power to run much more than enough to run the CDI ignition and very little lighting. The Banshee is an off road vehicle and doesn't require much lighting.
The XS650 ignition requires a bit more power and the lighting requirments are much more demanding. Get a stator designed to deliver enough power.
The rotor or flywheel, same thing, is just a housing that holds magnets and fit on the engine. So that rotor or one from Hugh will work.
With all the running around trying to get all the stuff you need in bits and pieces, the amount you save will not be much. With Hugh's kit you get all you need and great costomer support. Will your Ebay sellers give you that?
Leo
 
MAKE SURE TO GET THE CORRECT PART NUMBERS FROM A STATOR!!! THIS LIST IS NOT 100% ACCURATE. CORRECT STATOR MEASUREMENTS SHOULD BE 103mm X 42mm X 20mm

Hello Punkskalar!

I already have the rotor and the bracket. Could you explain what you mean by 103x42x20 mm?
103 is the outer diameter, I think, but what are 42 and 20 mm?:confused:

Thanks, Hein
 
The PMA setup is a fantastic product and Hugh is an equally awesome guy to do business with.

I HIGHLY recommend his swap for anyone looking to run their bike kick only or even to just guarantee a solid charging system.

I just scared the crap out of a group of would be thugs outside a bar with the first kick..... the small handfull of throttle didn't hurt...:D
 
Hello, first of thank u for the info in the thread. My question is will this work with my pamco electronic ignition? Thanks, Wayne.
 
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