Hydraulic Clutch Intrest?

[Metal]

Hi everyone.
I've been thinking about making a slave cylinder that fits the stock case with out mods and engages the push rod as intended again with out mods. A bolt on set up anyone could install that would delete the stock worm and cable set up. I know there are the HHB pit bike units that use the stock worm gear to work but I feel it's the worm gear and cable that is the issue here. I know there are retro fit solutions that take some mods to fit the case that are also out there. I want a no hassle solution that offers a soft lever, good performance and the ability to find neutral that anyone could install.

In my web surfing I found this picture on the xscafe. I couldn't find any more information on it. I like the way this unit mounts to the outside case. I thought you may be able to identify it for me. I figure it's custom build also.

If I made a run of these and they were reasonably priced would anyone be interested in using such a product?

Thanks in advance

Dan

 

[retiredgentleman]

The HHB cable replacement was not a hydraulic clutch at all, even though he marketed it as a hydraulic clutch. He claimed he developed it over 2 years, but it was just an off the shelf chinese cable replacement. Tried to sell it for 3 times the price compared to Ebay.

Yes, I'm sure there would be interest, if it works well and not too expensive. The mechanical worm gear works reasonably well, but guys complain that it takes too much effort, and they can't find neutral with a hot engine. Most bikes only get about 0.050" to 0.060" of push rod movement, which is just not enough when the engine heats up. I think you need to be in the 0.070" to 0.080" range.

Try it out on your bike and give us feed back.

Edit; numbers corrected Mar 22/17.

 

[gggGary]

my round tuit bin has something similar to this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161059903664

 

[vr3506]

http://images.xs650shop.de/51_165SW

 

[Metal]

my round tuit bin has something similar to this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161059903664

This looks like a very good price Gary. Would it work with the fluid used in master cylinders?

 

[Metal]

http://images.xs650shop.de/51_165SW

That's a nice looking unit. Very slim. So you know what kind of price they retail for? The site was in Dutch I think.

 

[Metal]

The HHB cable replacement was not a hydraulic clutch at all, even though he marketed it as a hydraulic clutch. He claimed he developed it over 2 years, but it was just an off the shelf chinese cable replacement. Tried to sell it for 3 times the price compared to Ebay.

Yes, I'm sure there would be interest, if it works well and not too expensive. The mechanical worm gear works reasonably well, but guys complain that it takes too much effort, and they can't find neutral with a hot engine. Most bikes only get about 0.060" to 0.070" of pushrod movement, which is just not enough when the engine heats up. I find you need to be in the 0.097" to 0.100" range or maybe as much as 0.110".

Try it out on your bike and give us feed back.

Well mine would be a real slave cylinder by definition. Thank you for the figures that gives me a head start. I'm going to draw up a few designs in 3D this weekend and start from there. Thanks for the support.

 

[gggGary]

figured on using jack oil on the clutch side................ they come single rod and in various diameters. for nearly free, lol the port would be best drilled and threaded larger IMHO.

 

[fredintoon]

my round tuit bin has something similar to this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161059903664

Hi Gary,
the site reference sez that thing is an air cylinder although it would most likely work with hydraulic fluid until the seal dissolved.
But the cost? $15 to purchase is OK but another $35 on top to send it via USPS? I don't think so.

 

[gggGary]

this is about what I have. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SDA12-5-12m...146984?hash=item25c6aefde8:g:RxoAAOSw4f5YCI1y

$4.50 USD free shipping.
stroke measures 5mm or about .17"
bore about 16mm or 5/8"
like above would probably use jack oil.
Fred c-mon down,
live'n in America,
all your shipping's free.

 

[fredintoon]

this is about what I have. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SDA12-5-12m...146984?hash=item25c6aefde8:g:RxoAAOSw4f5YCI1y

$4.50 USD free shipping.
stroke measures 5mm or about .17"
bore about 16mm or 5/8"
like above would probably use jack oil.
Fred c-mon down,
live'n in America,
all your shipping's free.

Hi Gary,
The costs in my post #9 are the US$ costs for purchase & mailing in the USA taken from the reference in your post #3.
If you can get 'em cheaper elsewhere, good for you.
And while I already live in America, sorrowfully I must decline your invitation to move to the USA.
Without Canadian Government Medical Insurance I'd either be dead or a million or so in debt
and as I was born in a Monarchy I doubt that your newly elected President's Border Nazis would let me in.

 

[gggGary]

Fred thought an old codger like you would catch the riff from an old song lyric..
for me shipping the first item is $7.00 second is free.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I like Mrriggs' stealth clutch.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/what-have-you-done-to-your-xs-today.32082/page-36#post-389554

 

[Mailman]

I like Mrriggs' stealth clutch.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/what-have-you-done-to-your-xs-today.32082/page-36#post-389554

That is such clever engineering. 2M that looks like some of your handiwork!

 

[gggGary]

I swear I never saw that! way cool.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes Mrriggs did an excellent job on the stealth clutch. However, I think the ones that mount on the outside are most suitable as well.

 

[ihaxs650]

Metal: I went through the process of installing Heiden's hydraulic clutch. Had to modify the side cover but it was no big deal. I saved my original cover in case i wanted to revert to the stock clutch. I went from the steel rod that heiden supplied to a one piece AL70785 rod of 266 mm all in an attempt to find neutral when the motor is hot. I did away with the two rod system! The AL70785 rod was an attempt to expand at the same rate as the engine internals. This was all to no avail. With a rod longer than 266 mm the clutch slips! Maximum separation of the clutch plates did not solve the neutral issue. I am not convinced that clutch plate separation will solve the hot neutral issue. Barring a design flaw from Heiden i do not see a hydraulic clutch solving this issue. Is a hydraulic clutch worth installing? You bet, the easier pull and consistent release point is worth the upgrade!

 

[retiredgentleman]

I don't understand what the pushrod length has to do with the clutch slipping? If the slave cylinder is set up such that there is no force on the pushrod i.e. a small amount of freeplay, the clutch plates are fully engaged. Did you measure the amount of pushrod movement you had?

 

[angus67]

Hmm,,,if the clutch needs more seperation, could a new clutch rod be turned a couple thou longer?

 

[ihaxs650]

Retiredgentleman:
angus:
A 266 mm push-rod was the maximum length that allowed no free play. Anything longer, than there would be force on the push-rod. I did not measure the push-rod movement. I believe that would require an inspection and access on the clutch side which is my next step. I am curious of the pushrod movement with the heiden hydraulic set up. At the same time, going to replace the clutch pack with Barnett and the stopper plate that TooMany suggested. This project is going to stretch out for several months.