I have an oil on the upper part of my engine. '77 xs650

[brocoli007]

I just rode my bike today for the first time to get it registered and I when I came back home I noticed oil on a lot of parts on the left side of the bike. It seems like the leak comes from above the spark plug, but you be the judge by looking at the pictures.

This bike was a gift from my dad, and he bought 1 year ago and had it restored. When I picked it up I noticed a small oil stain by the spark plug, but wasn't as bad as it now has come to be.

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[scabber]

Nice looking bike the oil leak is most likely the cam seal. You need to take off the cover off the points to see it.

 

[brocoli007]

Hi! I did and took some pictures. What do you think??

I am sorry, it seems that the pictures didn't upload.

 

[JP50515]

I agree. Looks like the cam seal. Like he said you'll have to pull out the ignition which isn't too difficult. Just make sure to put the advance rod back in the way it was or you'll be 180 Degrees out of whack.

 

[angus67]

you need to take off the cover held on by the two phillips screws right above you spark plug. the cam seals are in there. if there is oilall up in there, its the cam seals. It should be dry in there.

 

[brocoli007]

There was very little oil in there.. Here is a pic!

 

[brocoli007]

Here are a couple more.... If it's the cam seals, what should I do to them?

 

[angus67]

there should be no oil in there. Cam seals need replaceing, imo.
you need this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/05-0001.html
and this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/18-0863.html
and this.....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/01-9020.html
and 4 of these.....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/01-0651.html
And this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/35-0650.html

Now, you have to pull the engine out of the frame to get the rocker box off the motor, cant be done in the frame, dont ask.
There are various bolts holding the top of the motor on. Find a diagram, some one will post one, get a manual. The four brass washers you bought go on after the repair on the outter four head bolts, the big acorns. those bolts have oil running thru /around them, these will seal it back up after you remove the rocker box cover, take the points housings off, clean off the old gasket materials, check and make sure the cam bearings are ALL the way pushed in. if your lucky, this may be why its leaking. put it all back together, using proper torque technique. run a small bead of the sealant around the rocker box mating serfaces. once you find all your torque specs/sequences, change the torque on the big acorn nuts to 30 ft/lbs. Once you get it up and running, retorque the acorns again after a few rides.
Im sure i missed a bunch of stuff, but this will give you food for thought. I dont know your skills as a mechanic, but these are easy to work on, but at the same time, they need alot of looking after too.

 

[Austblue]

Good post thanks, Angus.

 

[XSLeo]

You don't need to pull the engine to fix those seals. You remove the points plate and behind the plate are three screws holding the housing on. Remove the screws, remove the housing. Now look at the housing and see how the seal sets. Remember how much sticks out the back side and how close to flush on the inside. You need to install the new to match. THe bore the seal sets in is straight through the housing. It can be driven out either way. I would install it from the out side and match the way it was.
On the inside the housing has both an o-ring and a gasket to seal the housing to the head. I used just the o-ring. This lets the seal ride a bit farther onto the camshaft.
Clean the area the seals rides on on the cam. Use a very fine scotch bright pad. Thius will clean and polish the cam. The beter it looks the better it will seal.
Leo

 

[5twins]

It seems some people's definition of "restored" differs from others, lol, lol.

 

[angus67]

Yeah, im betting the engine ran well, and was cleaned up, the bike looks great though.
On taking the motor out ir not, is there enuf room for the cover to go up enuf to push the cam bearings in further? I do hope its just a bad seal on this one.

 

[brocoli007]

there should be no oil in there. Cam seals need replaceing, imo.
you need this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/05-0001.html
and this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/18-0863.html
and this.....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/01-9020.html
and 4 of these.....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/01-0651.html
And this....
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/35-0650.html

Now, you have to pull the engine out of the frame to get the rocker box off the motor, cant be done in the frame, dont ask.
There are various bolts holding the top of the motor on. Find a diagram, some one will post one, get a manual. The four brass washers you bought go on after the repair on the outter four head bolts, the big acorns. those bolts have oil running thru /around them, these will seal it back up after you remove the rocker box cover, take the points housings off, clean off the old gasket materials, check and make sure the cam bearings are ALL the way pushed in. if your lucky, this may be why its leaking. put it all back together, using proper torque technique. run a small bead of the sealant around the rocker box mating serfaces. once you find all your torque specs/sequences, change the torque on the big acorn nuts to 30 ft/lbs. Once you get it up and running, retorque the acorns again after a few rides.
Im sure i missed a bunch of stuff, but this will give you food for thought. I dont know your skills as a mechanic, but these are easy to work on, but at the same time, they need alot of looking after too.

Is the "Gasket-rear of adv./ breaker housing" the same for the right and left sides of the engine??

 

[brocoli007]

Well, they replaced all the gaskets as well at the shop...!

 

[brocoli007]

Thanks!!!!

It also started leaking on the right plate. Do you know if its the same gasket for both sides?

 

[5twins]

Yes, it's the same gasket but - if it's leaking oil into the inside of the housing, it's not the gasket. It's the oil seal pressed into the back of the housing. If the gasket (or accompanying o-ring) were bad, oil would be leaking out from behind the housing where it meets the engine - but on the outside of the housing. Your pics clearly show oil pooled up in the bottom of the housing on it's inside.

 

[brocoli007]

By the way, you all are awesome!

I ordered the parts, and I'll be working on it this weekend if the parts get here by then. I took it for a spin over the weekend and was very gentle with it. I noticed the right side started to have a bit of an oil leak, not quite as bad as the left side though.

 

[brocoli007]

Yes, it's the same gasket but - if it's leaking oil into the inside of the housing, it's not the gasket. It's the oil seal pressed into the back of the housing. If the gasket (or accompanying o-ring) were bad, oil would be leaking out from behind the housing where it meets the engine - but on the outside of the housing. Your pics clearly show oil pooled up in the bottom of the housing on it's inside.

So what would you advise me do?? Should I cancel the order from the gaskets??

 

[brocoli007]

Yes, it's the same gasket but - if it's leaking oil into the inside of the housing, it's not the gasket. It's the oil seal pressed into the back of the housing. If the gasket (or accompanying o-ring) were bad, oil would be leaking out from behind the housing where it meets the engine - but on the outside of the housing. Your pics clearly show oil pooled up in the bottom of the housing on it's inside.

5twins,

is this the part that I need to replace?:

http://www.mikesxs.net/product/01-9020.html

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[5twins]

Yes, but there are a few things you might want to check first. The ends of the cam that the seal works upon don't stick out real far. That means the seal has to be seated in deep enough for the seal lips to ride on the cam end and do their job. Also, that little bit of cam end that protrudes gets really crudded up over time (dirt, rust, etc.). I would start by pulling the housings off and cleaning the cam end. Buff it till it shines using a Scotchbrite pad. This will clean it but not remove any material. With the housing removed, you'll also be able to inspect the seal install to make sure it's pressed in far enough. It should be inset when viewed from the front and the back of the seal should be even or slightly above the back of the housing.

If that all checks out then maybe you really do need new seals. Depending how the new gaskets were installed (with or without sealer), you may need to replace those as well. There's also an o-ring used with the gasket but if it was just replaced, it should still be OK. The new gaskets don't need any sealer. Just wet them down with motor oil. That will puff them up slightly (which will aid in sealing) and also allow you to pull those housings in the future without ruining the gasket. Using this technique, you may be able to pull those housings 3 or 4 times without needing to replace the gasket.