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Installing a Vape all in one charging and ignition system.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by gggGary, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yes the stop is more precise. but it's really not easy getting that mark "in stone" anywhere but the rotor. So if you use my method above you can then CHECK your work with a piston stop adjust further if needed.
    I am also going to want to have a set of reference marks; TDC |Fire| and the factory full advance mark. Thinking scribe marks on that lip visible when the round cover is removed.
    Timing is always a series of compromises; use, state of tune, altitude, weather, and quality of fuel in the tank. I'm not above a bit of adjustment based on how it starts, runs.
    I really appreciate all that are following, thinking about, and commenting on the process! :bike:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  2. arcticXS

    arcticXS XS650 Junkie

    I am planning to fit a PD/ Vape PMA to my XS, after I come home from this stint offshore, Will keep the points for now, but install a crank triggered ignition from another Czech supplier, Ignitech some time later. The best thing about crank triggeted systems, is that one can use "Shell" style camshaft caps. I got mine from Mule :)

    And even if the stator/rotor weights are the same, you still save a little bit of weight when removing the points, advance mechanism and the shaft inside the camshaft.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
    Paul Sutton, TwoManyXS1Bs and gggGary like this.
  3. Superjet

    Superjet XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Hi Gary great write up on the install and comments. I do enjoy these real time installation instructions on guys we can trust. Following..... JC
     
    Paul Sutton, Mailman and gggGary like this.
  4. Jack

    Jack XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    I assume Gary Hoos has installed one of these, has he play around with the ignition curves to see which one produces the best power for a hopped up motor?
     
    Mailman and gggGary like this.
  5. hooser

    hooser XS650 Addict

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    Hello Jack it's been a while but back in 07 i tested with my 1st ignition then main ones i used were the stock, all switch off and then the rev.limiter. Will have to see what gggGary comes up with. I think i sent it to the right guy, he's thorough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
    timbeck, Paul Sutton, Mailman and 3 others like this.
  6. Jack

    Jack XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Hey Gary, You sent it to the right guy for sure,I'll be watching closely.
     
    timbeck and Paul Sutton like this.
  7. Team Junk

    Team Junk XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I suspect the older version had a lighter flywheel. They make a point of the new systems flywheel weight. I think this setup will have more flywheel effect because the mass is concentrated around the periphery. Could be a good thing.
     
    timbeck and gggGary like this.
  8. Steve C

    Steve C XS650 Member

    As far as locking the crank in place when trying to set the timing...you could pull off the clutch cover and make a stop that engages the primary gear. Or even make paint marks on the primary side since that’s keyed. I know it’s some extra work but it’s a set-it, forget-it situation. Please include some pics on where you hide the iggy modules and wire routing.
    Thanks!
     
    timbeck, gggGary, Paul Sutton and 2 others like this.
  9. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yes pulling the RH clutch cover is the "True" answer fersher.
    Currently fitting a starter motor, this was a never finished "failed project" buy that's been in my shed for years. Found no oil in the crankcase. While cleaning the chain/sprocket area I found a sock stuffed in the starter shaft hole. :poo: :doh: :laugh:. Getting it to first fire may take a bit yet.
     
    Greyandridin, 59Tebo, Jake650 and 5 others like this.
  10. timbeck

    timbeck XS650 Junkie XS650.com Supporter

    I've been trying to find that sock....I thought the dog ate it....

    tim
     
  11. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    :laughing::smoke:
     
    59Tebo, mrtwowheel and Paul Sutton like this.
  12. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Just a bump so y'all know this hasn't been forgotten. After a bit of a holiday hiatus I'm toiling away trying to get all the motor maintenance stuff done so the motor can be fired. As to Paul's concerns I will most likely be running LED headlight and all other bulbs, and a lithium battery. I'm not too worried about the Vape VR charging a lithium, there WILL be an easy to see at all times Voltmeter plumbed in at the battery terminals.
     
  13. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    We're on the same page with mods, so I'll be watching this one, gggGary. I was planning all of it for "The Basketcase" - CDI (VAPE, HHB, etc.), Antigravity (lithium) battery, and as many LED conversions as I can get away with. Lighter, brighter, and more reliabler is where I want to go. All the good stuff. At the rate this is going, by the time I'm done, I'll be too old to ride it! :laugh: :banghead:
     
    grizld1, Jim, Mailman and 5 others like this.
  14. Beags64

    Beags64 XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

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    To scratch that itch in the "Golden Years"


    Hijack over, back to our regularly scheduled program.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    59Tebo, grizld1, Jim and 2 others like this.
  15. arcticXS

    arcticXS XS650 Junkie

    G
    Gary,
    I wouldn't be too worried either, I have been running a Powerdynamo (now Vape) on my RD350 for years, with a Super B 2600 LiPoFe battery (weighs just 450 g or 1 lb) I also have a 55/60W H4 headlight on the RD, and I am always running with low beam in daylight, as that is required in Norway. No issues whatsoever with the Powerdynamo or the battery. I can really recommend both these products!
     
  16. peterg

    peterg XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

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    Question about using a stand alone kill switch with the Vape. On the web site for the XS650 unit there are 2 diagram links. One is labelled with battery and shows a relay but no stand alone kill switch. The other is labelled without battery but the diagram shows a battery and a kill switch and no relay. Can either diagram/set up be used?

    http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7376/7376main.htm
     
  17. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    OK you made me spend some time looking at the wiring diagrams (thanks!).
    Important: When the blue/white wire is grounded, the spark quits.
    In the relay diagram, power from the existing 12 volt kill switch circuit, applied to terminal 85 "UNgrounds" the blue/white wire activating the spark circuit.
    Note you connect the ground wire to terminal 87a (normally closed), NOT to terminal 87 (normally open). If you don't use a relay you would need to use a "True" kill switch (like on a dirt bike, pushing the button grounds the blue/white wire.
    The stock XS650 "kill" switch supplies 12 volts to the coil when in the ON (middle) position.
    2020-01-05-17-09-www.powerdynamo.biz.png

    wiring diagram.gif


    wiring diagram 2.gif
     
  18. peterg

    peterg XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

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    Thanks Gary. Makes more sense to me but....

    Where is the stock kill switch connected? It's not the "charge control only" since the instructions mention a "charge control light" (see below). I take it that the "ignition lock" is the key switch not the stock kill switch. If the kill switch is not on the diagrams but part of the "existing electric system" I don't see how the it would isolate and control the power to the coils.

    upload_2020-1-5_19-5-21.png
     
  19. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The PMA is really two separate alternators, one side provides charging and +12 for everything, EXCEPT the ignition. There is no +12 power to the ignition coils from that charging side. There is a separate, triggered coil that sends power through the advance black box, then by the red wire to the ignition coil. This circuit is completely isolated from the charging side.
    The charging side can be completely fubar and you can still motor home on that independent ignition circuit.
    Note the "grounds the ignition coil" blue/white wire, kill switch. That circuit CAN be controlled with the kill switch powering terminal 85 instead of as the diagram shows directly from the Main or ignition switch.
    Like this

    wiring diagram using stock kill switch.gif

    Remember: I haven't done/wired this, YET!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  20. arcticXS

    arcticXS XS650 Junkie

    A kill switch (not pushbutton) from any cdi (or points) magneto equipped moped or dirt bike can be used, without a relay. Those are open in run, and closed in off.
     
    Paul Sutton and gggGary like this.

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