dlabkeeg
XS650 Addict
Is there an aftermarket intake manifold for the original carbs. Not just some rubber knockoffs of the OEM. Like the TCbros choppers have, but for stock. I'm looking, but not finding.
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Intake manifold
- Thread starter dlabkeeg
- Start date
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- Tags
- carburetors intake
I haven't ever seen any. I don't think you could do it in a aluminum flange with rubber hose configuration. There would be enough room or support for both the hose and clamps.
Yes, yes, I know.... Holy thread resurrection batman!
I have been working through the pages of the Garage for the past few weeks, found plenty of cool things stuck in here! Found this thread back on page 64.... but it still applies and is a continuing issue.
Has anyone come up with, found a place to make, made their own, or purchased from other applications a means of mounting the carburetors on a Yamaha XS650 to replace the stock rubber boot method? Literally I think we all need an exact replica of the TC-Bros aluminum intake with big thick rubber pipe to seal..............but for stock carbs. I've tried to think of all the options and come up with not much...
1) Buy the good boots from JBM-Industries HERE, for $58.00 a pair and $5.80 shipping.
2) Make your own out of scrap aluminum, requires skill and cost is too variable to put down.
3) Get aftermarket carbs JUST for the sole purpose of having a decent way to mount them. This is absolutely ludicrous. The stock Mikuni BS34's/BS38's are fine.
So...... We have a problem, is there a solution, yet?
I have been working through the pages of the Garage for the past few weeks, found plenty of cool things stuck in here! Found this thread back on page 64.... but it still applies and is a continuing issue.
Has anyone come up with, found a place to make, made their own, or purchased from other applications a means of mounting the carburetors on a Yamaha XS650 to replace the stock rubber boot method? Literally I think we all need an exact replica of the TC-Bros aluminum intake with big thick rubber pipe to seal..............but for stock carbs. I've tried to think of all the options and come up with not much...
1) Buy the good boots from JBM-Industries HERE, for $58.00 a pair and $5.80 shipping.
2) Make your own out of scrap aluminum, requires skill and cost is too variable to put down.
3) Get aftermarket carbs JUST for the sole purpose of having a decent way to mount them. This is absolutely ludicrous. The stock Mikuni BS34's/BS38's are fine.
So...... We have a problem, is there a solution, yet?
Last edited:
Visegrippe
lurker extraordinaire...
Just thinking aloud here, figuratively speaking, but I just had an idea for solid carb hholders, using an oring seal, a dirty big one, which would grab the rad on the neck of the stock carbs. If some one could measure that od and theplacement of the groove i'll draw up my idea if anyone wants to try get a set made.
As usual I'm too far from my bike...
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As usual I'm too far from my bike...
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Visegrippe
lurker extraordinaire...
If You could get the diameter of the part of the carb that goes into the boot, the size andlocation of the groove, as well as the hole locations and the angle of the mounting face on the engine. (Or measure an exiting boot/mount for that info)
I think that should cover it...
I'll probably go work on the bike this weekend, I'll bring back the old mounts with me, too
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I think that should cover it...
I'll probably go work on the bike this weekend, I'll bring back the old mounts with me, too
Posted via Mobile
1-5/8" (about 41mm) is the diameter of the part you insert into the rubber boots. This part is also 1/2" deep, meaning you shove this part of the carb 1/2" into rubber on the boots.
Tha groove is 3mm wide when measured laterally, and it is shaped as if an O-ring would lay in there perfectly. This groove is also 6mm back from the leading/outside edge of the carb. It encompasses the full 360* of the carb ('pipe' I'll call it) that goes into the boots. This is the complete outside portion of the pipe on the carbs.
The inside of this pipe, where air/fuel mixture flows is totally smooth save for one little ridge inside. There is a lip no more than .5mm tall that is 6mm in. This isn't a protrusion, however. It is material subtracted from the inside of the pipe, like an extrusion taken out at the end so the tip of the pipe is thinner all the way around. Make sense?
Moving onto the shape of the mounting surface on the engine, all parts measured from a cleaned surface on the block. The mounting holes are 70mm apart, center to center. The length of the mounting surface (the long way) is 84mm long. The short length across this surface is 55mm. The diameter of the intake hole on the engine is 33mm. The angle (found by placing a straight edge along the bottom two holes and measuring up to the center of the top hole, either side) is roughly 20 degrees. Give or take 1 degree or so.
The boots themselves are as follows. Thickness is 27mm on one side and 32mm on the opposing side. They seem to slope, downward, ever so slightly. This may be just mine, or simply from the weight affecting them over time. But they're not perfectly straight in all dimensions, so take it with a grain of salt. Aftermarket ones may be straight, no prob.
This is about everything I can think of at the moment, if you need more let me know.
Logan
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Tha groove is 3mm wide when measured laterally, and it is shaped as if an O-ring would lay in there perfectly. This groove is also 6mm back from the leading/outside edge of the carb. It encompasses the full 360* of the carb ('pipe' I'll call it) that goes into the boots. This is the complete outside portion of the pipe on the carbs.
The inside of this pipe, where air/fuel mixture flows is totally smooth save for one little ridge inside. There is a lip no more than .5mm tall that is 6mm in. This isn't a protrusion, however. It is material subtracted from the inside of the pipe, like an extrusion taken out at the end so the tip of the pipe is thinner all the way around. Make sense?
Moving onto the shape of the mounting surface on the engine, all parts measured from a cleaned surface on the block. The mounting holes are 70mm apart, center to center. The length of the mounting surface (the long way) is 84mm long. The short length across this surface is 55mm. The diameter of the intake hole on the engine is 33mm. The angle (found by placing a straight edge along the bottom two holes and measuring up to the center of the top hole, either side) is roughly 20 degrees. Give or take 1 degree or so.
The boots themselves are as follows. Thickness is 27mm on one side and 32mm on the opposing side. They seem to slope, downward, ever so slightly. This may be just mine, or simply from the weight affecting them over time. But they're not perfectly straight in all dimensions, so take it with a grain of salt. Aftermarket ones may be straight, no prob.
This is about everything I can think of at the moment, if you need more let me know.
Logan
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Visegrippe
lurker extraordinaire...
got it started, but have to head out, i'll work on it some more later.
so far so good.
so far so good.
So it would be chunk of machined aluminum like an original carb holder with a groove for a big o-ring? How would they be clamped? I'm curious to see the drawings turn out.
Sundie
Jabroni
Big fan. Work awesome.By the time you're done, you're going to wish you went with option 1. Plus, i'm not entirely sure that aluminum will stand up all that well in these circumstances/design. time will tell.
I don't understand why this would have any different issues...?
yeah. #1.
Be careful of what you wish for a carb rigidly mounted to a shaker like the XS650 may flow gas and come apart while riding in unexpected ways.
But are you thinking something like this?
But are you thinking something like this?
Visegrippe
lurker extraordinaire...
was thinking that the carb would still be "rubber mounted" via the oring, (or 2). i need to work out clearances and such, but it should basically mount the same as the rubber ones, just with Buna-N orings for fuel compatibility. the oring and groove will be sized so as to securly retain the carbs, in theory the clamps wouldn't be required, though i will probably split the ends, over the second, non-seal, oring to be clampable.
There's no way a solid aluminum boot would suffice on it's own, it would need a way to easily slide the carbs in, and then clamp them on. The O-ring also wouldn't be enough dampening.
Sundie - if all else fails, I'll DEFINITELY order through JDM before MikesXS. I have no doubt that they got a great product there. #3 was saying that we could forget all this nonsense about machining new boots if we purchased carbs that worked with the EXISTING aluminum boots. I.e. TC-Bros and 650central. But I'd just as soon keep my stock carbs, and have better mounts. Can't a motorcycle afficianado have his cake and eat it too?
GggGary - my thought was they wouldn't be solid mounted. Here I'll try to explain,
Make a boot nearly identical to the stock rubber ones. However, instead of it being a larger diameter so the carb pushes into it, make them the same exact size. The pipe on the carb and the piece of pipe on the new boots. Then take a thick and sturdy rubber tube just large enough to fit over both these pipes, and clamp them on both sides. This gives you a perfect seal if pushed in all the way correctly, and also a rubber mounted style of dampening characteristics. There is plenty of space on the carb (1/2" actually) to run a stainless steel hose clamp there, and the aluminum 'boot' would also have as much or more space to clamp around. Theoretically this would work in the same way as the TCBros just......shorter.
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Sundie - if all else fails, I'll DEFINITELY order through JDM before MikesXS. I have no doubt that they got a great product there. #3 was saying that we could forget all this nonsense about machining new boots if we purchased carbs that worked with the EXISTING aluminum boots. I.e. TC-Bros and 650central. But I'd just as soon keep my stock carbs, and have better mounts. Can't a motorcycle afficianado have his cake and eat it too?
GggGary - my thought was they wouldn't be solid mounted. Here I'll try to explain,
Make a boot nearly identical to the stock rubber ones. However, instead of it being a larger diameter so the carb pushes into it, make them the same exact size. The pipe on the carb and the piece of pipe on the new boots. Then take a thick and sturdy rubber tube just large enough to fit over both these pipes, and clamp them on both sides. This gives you a perfect seal if pushed in all the way correctly, and also a rubber mounted style of dampening characteristics. There is plenty of space on the carb (1/2" actually) to run a stainless steel hose clamp there, and the aluminum 'boot' would also have as much or more space to clamp around. Theoretically this would work in the same way as the TCBros just......shorter.
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Sundie
Jabroni
two things:
1 - note in that sic above that those are *not* replacement carb mounts. They are plenum runners. You can see the regular carb mount attached to them. You would do this if you wanted to increase bottom end torque, at the expense of top end horsepower.
2 - the aluminum pipe method will not work. If the diameters of a: the carb outlet and b: the head inlet are not matched (which requires a slope, or cone), it's just plain going to suck. The tc bros will suck because of this. Maybe not for bar hopping around, but anything over 4k will.
So, that leaves cncing out of a block. Which i bet will come out to more than 58 a pair, and *still* leaves some sort of rubber connector to be figured out.
Now, this is just my thought process on the whole thing. I'm not trying to discourage the attempt - just warning you about what you're going to hit.
The original designers got it almost right, and imho JBM fixed the couple of very minor flaws.
1 - note in that sic above that those are *not* replacement carb mounts. They are plenum runners. You can see the regular carb mount attached to them. You would do this if you wanted to increase bottom end torque, at the expense of top end horsepower.
2 - the aluminum pipe method will not work. If the diameters of a: the carb outlet and b: the head inlet are not matched (which requires a slope, or cone), it's just plain going to suck. The tc bros will suck because of this. Maybe not for bar hopping around, but anything over 4k will.
So, that leaves cncing out of a block. Which i bet will come out to more than 58 a pair, and *still* leaves some sort of rubber connector to be figured out.
Now, this is just my thought process on the whole thing. I'm not trying to discourage the attempt - just warning you about what you're going to hit.
The original designers got it almost right, and imho JBM fixed the couple of very minor flaws.
I did notice the picture showed plenum spacers, Which I like by the way, and youre correct in the fact that they increase torque down low while limiting top end horsepower. That is all fine and dandy, but doesn't have anything to do with what we've been discussing because the whole point was to make the stock BS34's/BS38's fit the bike while utilizing an aftermarket/improved/stronger/cleaner mount than the garbage rubber ones from factory. YES the JBM ones are great, but were verbally exploring the possibilities at the moment. If a design IS made, then we have struck gold. If not, were no worse for wear. The JBM still exists. The stock ones can be made to work, albeit not perfectly. The Mikes ones work fine if you stay far far away from ethanol. See what i'm saying? Again, not quarreling with you here, you obviously know what your talking about and have a solid opinion, but so do the rest of us and were just having fun!
we could indeed machine them from a solid stock of aluminum. It's not too much different than milling the base plate, turning the pipe and welding them together..
Ahh the little things in life
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we could indeed machine them from a solid stock of aluminum. It's not too much different than milling the base plate, turning the pipe and welding them together..
Ahh the little things in life
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Sundie
Jabroni
fine and dandy. So the only thing you have to absolutely make sure you get right is matching the inner diameters of the carb outlet and the head intake. The curve you use to match these should be just that - a curve, not a straight line if it's longer than a quarter inch. And there can only be a minimal gap between the carb and holder, preferably less than 1mm.
While you're at it, carve spirals on the inside face.
While you're at it, carve spirals on the inside face.
Sundie
Jabroni
oh, and one last thing - if i could get new carb mounts from the factory at a reasonable price, i'd go with them every time. Anything that lasts 30 years in horrible conditions isn't garbage.
Hey Sundie, I just checked out a few OEM partsfiche's for the stock boots and I keep seeing 50+..............EACH! Yowzas! (They were labeled separately as left and right sides, around 56 bucks each side)
I just emailed JBM-Industries, placing my order for their boots. I can stomach 63.80 for a pair of high-quality parts like these.
Visegrippe - how is the design coming? I'm always up for cool new parts
I just emailed JBM-Industries, placing my order for their boots. I can stomach 63.80 for a pair of high-quality parts like these.
Visegrippe - how is the design coming? I'm always up for cool new parts
Visegrippe
lurker extraordinaire...
slowly... getting ready to move, and have been renovating for the last few weeks. less time to work on it than i thought i would have.
after this weekend i should have a lot more time... maybe i'll even get to work on the bike a bit... sigh.
after this weekend i should have a lot more time... maybe i'll even get to work on the bike a bit... sigh.
chopitdropit
XS650 Addict
Not sure how this got to the top as the post above mine is from june? but I'm ordering some boots from JBM in the morning...tired of fighting my old ones to stop air leaks.
Gonna pull my diaphrams and check them first, might be ordering those too from JBM.
Glad I ran across this thread
Gonna pull my diaphrams and check them first, might be ordering those too from JBM.
Glad I ran across this thread
