Intermittent starter rattle a few seconds after engine runs

[rbirkey]

I'm new to this forum and the Yamaha XS650. I am more knowledgeable about the 2001-2015 Triumph Bonnevilles. I recently helped a friend get his 1977 Yamaha XS650D running. We have noticed that more often than not, there will be a noticeable loud rattle for a second or so after the engine engages and starts running from an electric start. Sometimes it does not do this at all. I am wondering if it is possible that a solenoid controlled gear is not being disengaged quickly enough after the engine fires? I've looked through the forum for this specific issue and not found anything quite like it. Oh, and yes, we have adjusted the timing chain tensioner according to the manual. The sound does not seem like it is connected to that. Any experiences, thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Mailman]

The starter system on these bikes were an afterthought add on by the factory. It’s a rather convoluted affair and it is notoriously noisy. The starter gear has a wishbone spring on it that loses tension and affects proper operation, resulting in worn teeth on the gear. The common fix is to replace the gear and squeeze the spring to increase slip tension.

Have a look in here, post #936

http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-47

I’m just heading out right now. There’s lots more info on the forum about this problem. Just search starter gear.

 

[peterg]

I had the the issue and asked about it on this forum. Consensus is that it’s the nature of the beast.

 

[rbirkey]

Looks like this might be the kit I need...

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...oem-447-15516-00-90468-29062-90501-15409.html

 

[Mailman]

Looks like this might be the kit I need...

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...oem-447-15516-00-90468-29062-90501-15409.html

That’s the one. The spring is heavier than the one that came from the factory, but even still, it can sometimes be too loose. I’ve installed a couple of those now and both of them, after breaking that spring free and rotating it around a few times, provided too little slip resistance. The fix for that is to leave the spring on the gear and squeeze that little loop that is sticking out in the vise to increase tension. The desired amount of tension is at least 12 lbs slip resistance. That can be measured with a fish scale. Pull on the loop and see how many pounds it takes to break the spring free. I bought a cheap scale online, but you could probably get one at Walmart?

Also, be aware that even replacing that gear, isn’t going to make it appreciably quieter. It will just stop that run over you get when you let off the button and it will work better.
They are just noisy by nature. Too many gears and shafts involved.

 

[Mailman]

I might as well throw this service bulletin in there too. Showing where to place the loop of the wishbone spring inside the case.

 

[rbirkey]

Wow... thanks for all the great info! Much appreciated! How serious is this as far as waiting to fix it? Can this go on a long time until the gear just work work, or is it best to change it sooner?

 

[650Skull]

As a correction...............it is MikesXS clip that is weaker, (smaller diameter steel), than the original clips...........Yamaha changed the strength, and the length of the horseshoe end of the clips, as per the bulletin.

Worn teeth on the Gog isn't the issue it is the clip solely..........some of the pics of the cogs have looked terrible and making more tension on the clip, By squeezing the horseshoe part, has solved the problem........

If you want to spend your friends money for nothing then buy the MikesXS set.............don't throw away the old clip as you will need it when you find that the mikes one is shit

 

[650Skull]

Might want to read these............From a seach ........"Starter gear spring"..... http://www.xs650.com/search/35123097/?q=starter+gear+spring&o=relevance

http://www.xs650.com/threads/is-this-starter-gear-still-ok-to-use.49446/#post-506857

http://www.xs650.com/threads/starter-gear-fix.18060/#post-177289

 

[xjwmx]

I put on the Mike's kit 10 yrs ago and it solved the problem. The wishbone in it was the same dia as the one in the bike, which could also have been a Mike's for all I know. However -- the "compression spring" in the kit has just now broken after 10 yrs.

 

[Mailman]

The spring that was on my XS2 gear was definitely skinnier than one on the gear I got from Mikes.

When I replaced the gear on my ‘77, the spring appeared to be the same size as the one I got from Mikes.

I don’t think I ever even looked. Can you still get OEM from Yamaha?

 

[650Skull]

Yea Bob the early springs were smaller.................As for MikesXS, have a look at pic #6 in post #1..........may be different now.........
http://www.xs650.com/threads/starter-gear-fix.18060/#post-177289

 

[xjwmx]

How serious is this as far as waiting to fix it? Can this go on a long time until the gear just work work, or is it best to change it sooner?

It's not pressing, and new parts might not quieten it down. Usually the fixes being described are to address a starter gear that occasionally won't engage the flywheel, which doesn't sound like what you have. But it's a touchy area, there are springs and helical gears and gears within gears... and it's worth looking for damage around there. You have to take the clutch out, and then you'll see the parts in Mailman's diagram held on with a snap ring.

 

[Jim]

I had the the issue and asked about it on this forum. Consensus is that it’s the nature of the beast.

And that's my experience also. I'm on my 3rd (4th maybe?) XS and every one of 'em did (the SG currently does) what you describe. Either I'm the outlier... or it's pretty normal. Starter has always worked just fine on all of 'em and never failed me nor needed any attention. I'd go with Paul McCartney's suggestion.... Let it be.