is my regulator overcharging?

[angus67]

I have figured out what was wrong with my 1971 regulator, and why the charging system wasn't charging. No power to reg.
So I powered it up, and started the bike. It has all original electrics, and although I cant run it very long(fouls out plugs), I was able to at least get a read while it tried to idle. at 1500 rpm, my regulator is pushing 14.9 volt. at idle, 14.5.
Is this over charging? I didn't have the head/tail lites on, and I believe it shouldn't be charging at all at idle, 1200rpm. The battery is a brand new mottobat, correct for this bike, I run it all the time in my chopper, and has never let me down, even when it sits for a couple months, first kick on chopper.
I plan on updateing the electronics with a radio shack rectifier and vr-115 regulator, but I need a chain of events so I can follow a path to success.
I plan on riding this bike, so even though the original electrics may show good, I don't want to be stranded banging my head against a wall knowing full well 43 year old electronics don't like being woken up.

 

[5twins]

That does seem a bit high. I'm not sure if that older regulator is the same as the one they used in the mid to late '70s. If it is, you could take a crack at adjusting it .....

 

[pamcopete]

angus67,

Being as it is the original mechanical regulator and the lights were off, I would say that's the best you are going to get. Try it with the lights on. These regulators also have a tendency to go high at higher RPM's after the battery has regained its charge, so you should also check it if possible while riding.

As for adjusting the regulator, it's a real PITA because the cover influences the magnet field of the coil and as a result the voltage will change when you put the cover back on, so you have to guess what that change will be when you make the adjustment with the cover off. In any case, you have to check the voltage at high RPM's, so put a giant fan in front of the engine while doing the adjustment. This is definitely a six beer procedure. You will also need a bunch of tools that you don't need anymore to throw across the garage and tell the wife and kids to stay in the house to avoid a lesson in industrial language and, one more precaution, make sure there is plenty of gas in the tank because with all that high RPM testing, you will probably use all the gas and then spend the rest of the weekend trying to figure out why it won't start

(Don't ask me how I know all this stuff.....just take a guess... )

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes, that is over charging. In a perfect world, your regulator would control volatge at
14.1 volts. However in the real world, up to 14.5 volts is considered OK.

I would not waste any time trying to make the old mechanical reg work properly. Its best to remove the old reg and the old rectifier, and retire them to a museum.

The VR-115 and new rectifier will make your electrical system happy,
like this little yellow guy

 

[CDNTX650]

I agree. Those are two things I would ditch.

Posted via Mobile

 

[angus67]

thanks, guys. 5t, even the manual states the cover gives problems.
As for ditching those components, will do. I just want to get it running correctly as is, then with that baseline, start making changes.

 

[angus67]

I adjusted my regulator, looks pretty clean in there. hit the points with 800 grit, then sprayed contact cleaner on it to rinse. adjusted per manual. We will see what she puts out tomorrow.
What is crew #10 for? 13 is for the points, and 14 is for the core gap. I used #10 to get the core gap to .038"

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

That screw #10 adjusts the spring force on the points pull-in arm, and will establish the regulator's nominal voltage. Back it out to reduce voltage. Careful, a fraction of a turn goes a long way...

 

[angus67]

can I adjust it while running?

 

[XSLeo]

Another thing is the voltage on the brown wire at the regulator. The reg reads the voltage on the brown wire. If low the reg will over charge by the amount the brown wire is low. Check your voltage. it should be within .2 or .3 of the battery.
Possible voltage drops can occur in the main switch, main fuse, brown wire fuse or any wire connection in between the battery and reg.
Leo

 

[fredintoon]

can I adjust it while running?

Hi angus,
can you get at it to make adjustments while it's in place?
(my Heritage has a finned thing that can't be messed with and I don't know where yours is located)
But it's an XS650; if it's running it's vibrating.
I doubt you could hold the screwdriver and wrench steady enough to make fine adjustments with the engine running.

 

[angus67]

its adjustable. behind the right side cover. The battery is holding steady, so

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

can I adjust it while running?

That's how I do mine. Quite accessable...

 

[angus67]

That's how I do mine. Quite accessable...

thanks. I was just wondering if I did it running, there would be a surge, or a emp, or some crap that would instantly flash my bike to ashes. So I should shoot for 14.5?
On a side note, I got my 72 xl250 running. It wont take any throttle, carb is clean, tank is good, gas is fresh timing is spot on. Static, and dynamic. Its spitting gas back thru the carb every revolution. I thought the valves were stuck open, but I converted my comp gauge to a air leak tester, set it to blow as if I was blowing thru a straw, tdc, I don't hear any hissing any where. Guesse the carb isn't clean enuf? Sorry to piggyback the problems of this 250 in a Yamaha forum, But I just cant find good info online, you guys are my only hope.
btw, its suppose to have at least 180 compression, and that's were it tests at.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... if I did it running, there would be a surge, or a emp, or some crap that would instantly flash my bike to ashes. So I should shoot for 14.5?

Haha, haven't experienced an EMP since the '60s. I think you're safe. With the seat off, right cover off, meter on battery, it's real easy to set. Take reading at 3000 rpm, loosen locknut, nudge screw #10 in appropriate direction, snug locknut, just finger-hold the cover over the reg, take reading, repeat. I like 13.8-14.2v, but that's for my deer-feeder batteries. You'll probably be fine at 14.2v.

... I got my 72 xl250 running. It wont take any throttle...

Put your hand over the muffler outlet, feel the exhaust pulses as you play with the throttle. If it doesn't try to bark/bite your hand, may have a clogged exhaust...

 

[angus67]

Thank you. I'll do the regulator today., and take her on a 2 mile test ride .
I had thought about the exhaust being plug, but at idle, it does flow, but it is very quiet. Ill start soaking the bolts and yank the pipe tonight. Might be a couple dead mice in there.

 

[5twins]

The drawing above doesn't illustrate it very well but screw #14 is for adjusting the core gap. When loosened, the whole points assembly can be slid up and down. That moves the points arm (#2) up and down along with it and changes the core gap (#1). Playing with screw #10 shouldn't alter the core gap at all.

 

[angus67]

thank you, 5t. I did adjust it back to stock, correct core gap, and point gap, used 800g emery on the points and rinsed with electrical contact cleaner, so all that's good. just need to get to fiddling.
About the 250, The guy I got it from said when it was running a couple years ago, it sucked in old air filter, that's prolly what is in the exhaust baffle. Ive got pb blaster on the bolts now.

 

[angus67]

250 runs, but only with the exhaust off. the inner pipe collapsed, so, back burner it goes. The collapse is at a bend, so I have a lot of pie cutting and welding to do, but @ least I know whats wrong with it. Started pretty easy with the pipe off, even rode it a few hundred feet up the drive. I didn't wail on it, so the valves are fine. sure sounds funny.
So, anyways, back to xs650 nirvana, I adjusted my voltage regulator to run 14.2 volts at 3,000 rpms, with cover on. But Im leary in that its putting out alittle over 13 volts with the high beam on, and turn signals on, and brake light on. Is that ok?

 

[pamcopete]

angus67,

The brake light and turn signals should not be considered when adjusting the regulator because they are not on all the time and generally they are on at low speed when the alternator is not producing much current anyway so you certainly would not adjust the regulator to satisfy that load. The 13.5 that you see with the headlight on would be OK with the brake light and turn signals off at 3,000 RPM.

What we are really saying is that the alternator does not produce enough power for hi beam, brake light and turn signals at the same time especially at low engine speed so there is no point in testing or adjusting the regulator with everything on.

Whatever you do, do not follow that procedure in the book that says to disconnect the battery while adjusting the regulator because the regulator will go Ape Shit and fry the entire electrical system. (maybe not, but you don't want to find out!!! )