Jim's 1980 SG Miss September

[MaxPete]

This brush thing is very interesting to me.

As I’ve mentioned, on my 1975 XS650B which I owned back in the mid-late 70s, I had to change my alternator brushes every 5-6000 miles like clockwork (after an initial unpleasant surprise and very unhappy experience involving a cold rainy night on a back road - with a girlfriend - the night before a thermo exam). I used to check them about monthly and I was riding A LOT.

Over the past 20 months I have put about 4000 miles on my 1976 XS650C with no visible wear on the brushes which weren’t new when I started. I now wonder if I had a rotor with a rough surface finish on the slip rings. I was buying OEM brushes from a Yamaha dealer - several sets per season.

Hmmmmm.

Pete

 

[mrtwowheel]

Cheap Chinese junk I'd guess. I'd stay away from both of them.

I've bought enough of those aftermarket reg/rec's to learn my lesson for life.

I have one of those Fiat regs, that 5twins linked,on one of my Hondas, going great, and tiny and easy to place. OREGON regulators builds his with the same regulator and offers a lifetime warranty.

Scott

 

[Mailman]

Mailman had a lot of trouble using the very cheap 3phase rectifiers from Ebay (China). It wasn't until he bought through a reputable distributor (Windy Nation) that he had success. I paid similar for one from Vishay (International Rectifier) and it has been good for 1000 miles now.

Those units made by 5twins are very smart. If you want to replicate the combination stock rectifier/regulator then that Fiat regulator 5twins shows above is ideal because the body of it goes to ground so can be attached directly to the heat sink with the 3phase rectifier.

That wasn't me, I bought an inexpensive eBay rectifier and used an automotive VR-115 regulator. My overhaul begins here.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-17
Starting at post #331 , this was my charging system overhaul.
And it works very very well.
Thank you very much!

 

[5twins]

Yes, I think that was Daniel Black that had the rectifier problems. But he's the only one I seem to recall that has reported them. No matter, probably not worth the worry to save $5.

 

[Jim]

What a dumbass! Me that is... I'm gonna chalk this up to gettin' forgetful in my old age (I'm stickin' to that story), but there really ain't no excuse for this. I got to thinkin' about the resistance values I got (3-400K) and the values I was expecting (less than 1) and I suddenly realized I was lookin' at resistance and expecting the readings you'd get looking for a voltage drop. In other words, I had the meter set here....

And expecting a result from a meter set here.....

I was expecting a voltage drop of less than 1 volt across the fwd. bias and was looking for that on the ohms scale.
After setting the meter correctly, the rectifier is good. I think I'll crawl back out of this rabbit hole now....
EDIT: I guess the funny part is that if I'd let my OCD half overrule my logical half, the reg/rectifier would be done and installed by now...

 

[Paul Sutton]

Jim, glad you got it sorted. I knew that little subliminal comment I put in Entry 231 would get you thinking. But that does not explain me getting it wrong regarding Mailman - Sorry Mailman. I'm also going to claim old age and memory issues for that one.

Regarding Chinese stuff, I suspect the issue is their allowing substandard components to be dumped on the Ebay market. I am sure that their products will be good if bought through the correct channels where QC specs have been met.

It is Christmas now and the sun is shining. I am thinking a little ride may be in order - Merry Christmas everyone and thanks for all the help throughout the Year and of course next Year.

 

[MaxPete]

Sounds very nice Paul, but no riding for the Frozen Chosen here in SW Ontario this Christmas morn.....

 

[jetmechmarty]

For those who want a plug-n-play, Oregon Motorcycle Parts has regulator/rectifiers for XS650. He gets all good reviews, and Tony also supports the Vintage Yamaha Rally.

 

[fredintoon]

.
Regarding Chinese stuff, I suspect the issue is their allowing substandard components to be dumped on the Ebay market. I am sure that their products will be good if bought through the correct channels where QC specs have been met.
.

Ha!
their QA paperwork is superb and they'll create and send you all the documentation you'll ever need.
You shoulda seen the paperwork that accompanied a Chinese 3,000 psi-rated nuclear steam fitting that X-rays
proved was welded up from a bunch of couplers and elbows rather than the forging the QA documents claimed.
.These are the guys that invented paper money, right?

 

[Jim]

Since my fuse holder is shot, like most others this old.....

and wanting to go with the newer blade type fuses anyway, I ordered this one from Amazon...

It was 13 bucks and has good reviews. No brand name... so it's obviously Chinese. I like the idea that a red LED will go out when the fuse blows. A nice modern touch. It's 4.3" long, 3.9" wide and 1.6" tall. So.... I'm not sure there's clearance under the seat. Anybody out there know off the top of their head how much room there is?
If there's not enough room, I'll probly' put it under the right side cover.

 

[Downeaster]

Here's how I handled it on my '79.

 

[Paul Sutton]

Is this the correct type? It looks more like a 4-Way fuse box that takes one power input at the screw with a nut and gives 4 outputs via independent fuses. The stock fuse box takes 4 inputs and outputs each via its own fuse so has 8 wires in total.

 

[5twins]

Be aware that you can't run all 4 of your original fuses off that "one-feed-in" box. You'll have to put your 20A main fuse in an in-line holder on the power feed wire from the battery to the ignition switch. Then, a power feed has to come from the ignition switch (so it's "switched"), not directly from the battery, and run to that fuse box.

 

[Paul Sutton]

Those LEDs are a great idea. They light when the fuse blows. You can buy the blade fuses with LEDs built into them, they cost a little extra but are great at night if stuck on the side of a road.

 

[Jim]

The stock fuse box takes 4 inputs and outputs each via its own fuse so has 8 wires in total.

Be aware that you can't run all 4 of your original fuses off that "one-feed-in" box.

The 20A fuse is for the charging circuit. I have an inline blade holder for that, that will go direct to the battery. The 3 10A's are fed from the ign. switch on the brown wire. That will attach to the feed stud on the new holder. That gives me my 3 10A's with a spare for whatever...

 

[5twins]

The 20A fuse is the main power fuse for the whole bike, not just the charging circuit. It should fuse the power feed running from the battery to the key switch. The key switch then directs that power to all the other circuits.

 

[fredintoon]

Be aware that you can't run all 4 of your original fuses off that "one-feed-in" box. You'll have to put your 20A main fuse in an in-line holder on the power feed wire from the battery to the ignition switch. Then, a power feed has to come from the ignition switch (so it's "switched"), not directly from the battery, and run to that fuse box.

Hi 5twins,
you sure about the diode symbols on the R, L/W & B/W to R/W wires in this diagram?
I've never noticed those diodes on my bike and Clymer's wiring diagrams don't show them.

 

[Paul Sutton]

They are bullet connectors but like diode symbols emphasize getting the order correct.

Edit: On the safety side when using bullet connectors I always try to remember to make the live wire the Female connector. This way should it accidentally come undone it cannot short circuit to the chassis because it is insulated whereas the male connector is not insulated.

 

[Jim]

Not sure where I got it, but I was going off this diagram....

The green arrow I added shows Batt. power splitting before the fuse. One leg goes to the ign. switch and back to the fuse block for the 3 10's and the other goes to the 20 and on to the charging system. So, if you guys are saying this diagram is incorrect, I guess I'll get in my Yamaha book and figure it out on the correct diagram. It ain't that hard....

 

[Jim]

Now that I'm suspicious of my colored diagram, I see an obvious problem. The way this is drawn, un-fused power goes to ign. switch and back to fuse block before it ever sees a fuse. So, if ign. switch shorts to gnd. there's nothing to stop the wiring from burning up. No self respecting engineer would do that. This diagram is obviously f&cked. I just deleted it from my computer. If I ever remember where I got it, I'll point that out....