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Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Downeaster, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Can't find it just now but I know I read somewhere that the cobby Hurricane shot down more enemy aircraft during the Battle of Britain than it's glamorous Spitfire co-worker.
     
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  2. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    That is correct.
     
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  3. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Still Looking Good Top Contributor

    I have also seen the data showing how well the Hurricane did. I also read that the Spitfire superseded the Hurricane because it was a more modern design and better suited to upgrading.
     
    Marlin72xs likes this.
  4. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Again, don't have the citation to hand, but I believe the Spitfire was the only plane anywhere which was in mass production prior to the start of WW11 - that's September 1939 BTW - and still in mass production at the end of the war.
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  5. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Still Looking Good Top Contributor

    Is it true they glued split peas to the rivets to work out what affect the rivet head shape would have on speed?
    Did the final angle of the exhausts give about 15 knots extra speed?
     
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  6. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Actually the Messerschmidt Bf109 was also in production both before and at the end of the war.

    Of course, production ended due to management problems and a sharp drop in customer interest in April 1945......
     
  7. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I've heard they couldn't get the staff. Or the parts. Or the fuel.

    But I'm sure the fascist regime in Spain used the Bf109 or a derivative in the decades after the war? Surviving examples of Spanish Mes went on to have a second career in war films. Though teenage boys who made Airfix models - me - always muttered in disgust 'That's not a Me Bf109G!'
     
  8. Greyandridin

    Greyandridin Got nothing to do and all day to do it XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    I have a question for you guys
    I've been on a few commercial jets and when they land do they use reserve thrust to slow the plane down or just lay on the brakes
    It sounds like the engine just roars once they get on the ground
     
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  9. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Yeah... brakes alone won't do. Thrust reversers are used.
     
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  10. Greyandridin

    Greyandridin Got nothing to do and all day to do it XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    That's what I thought
    Could those reverse thruster ever engage during flight by accident ?
    Thanks
     
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  11. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The Hispano built 109 (don't remember their designation) was produced up into the mid 50's. Without looking it up, I think they served on active duty up to the early 60's
     
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  12. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Extremely rare for that to happen. In the early 90's, a 767 operated by Lauda Air (Niki Lauda of Formula One fame) went down because a reverser deployed in flight. Killed everyone aboard. We had to do a mod on all 767's after that was pretty involved... took several hundred man-hours iirc. It added lockouts upon more lockouts. We had one deploy on a 727 I was a flight mech on. Since the engines were in the back instead of on the wings, we had plenty of time to deal with it. We shut that engine down and pressed on. Like I said... a tough, well built airplane. :D

    Other than that, I don't recall any reversers deploying in-flt.
     
  13. Grimly

    Grimly XS650 Addict

    286
    627
    93
    Ireland
    Wasn't there a hostile takeover involved?
     
  14. Greyandridin

    Greyandridin Got nothing to do and all day to do it XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

     
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  15. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Raymond and Jim are dead right on this. The Bf109 was built for a time after war in both Spain and Czechoslovakia. I think that the Czech planes used leftover Jumo 211 engines and for sure, the Spanish planes used Rolls Royce Merlins. Spain also operated a gaggle of He111 medium bombers (known there as the CASA C2.111) that were RR Merlin-powered as well. The photos below shows an original Junkers Jumo-engined Heinkel He111 in Spanish colours (with a flexible fuel bladder lying on the ground under the wing) and below that, two Merlin-powered CASA C2.111s as used in the film - painted in Luftwaffe colours. The rest of the aircraft is the same, but the engine cowlings are entirely different.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Spanish planes (the fighters and the bombers) were indeed used in the 1969-70 (??) movie The Battle of Britain - and many of those aircraft survive to this day. In fact, one of the Spanish He111s from the film is based at an airport in suburban Los Angeles (Long Beach perhaps...?).

    The fighters were called (I think) Ha1112 Bichons and were reportedly even nastier to fly than the original Messerschmitt version - because for one thing, the Merlin turns in the opposite direction from the original D-B engines and also, the thrust line of the RR was higher plus it was heavier (both of which interacted with the tail controls in an unfortunate way). On the other hand, the Merlin-powered bombers reportedly flew about the same as the original Jumo-engined variants.

    Identifiers are that the Merlin-engined planes had their exhaust manifolds much higher on the cowl and had a radiator under the engine (somewhat like a P40) while on the D-B and Jumo-engined planes, the radiators were under the wing roots (as on a Spitfire). This is because the German V12s were all inverted with the crankshaft running at the top of the engine and the heads at the bottom. The Spanish fighters also used four-bladed props while no production-model Messerschmitt ever had more than three blades. In the two photos, the upper one is of a D-B engined Messerschmitt Bf109 G-10 while the lower photo shows a Spanish Merlin-engined Ha1112 in German colours.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Messerschmitt Bf109 really is an incredibly small airplane (much smaller than the Spitfire, Hurricane, FW190 or Mustang) and these changes made an already challenging airplane, even trickier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  16. There was a fatal accident in Cranbrook in 1978. Not a case of accidental deployment. A 737 tried to abort landing after the reverse thrusters were deployed. One thruster was retracted, the other remained deployed.
     
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  17. halfmile

    halfmile XS Builder XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    1,260
    4,254
    263
    kansas
  18. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Now THAT was an amazing piece of engineering to be sure!
     
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  19. azman857

    azman857 '80 XS 650SG Rider XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Especially since they were converted from proppeler aircraft!
     
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  20. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Used to work in Camberley, on the Surrey-Hampshire border.

    This must have been the early 1990s? Came out of work one day, about 5pm, headed down London Road and to my surprise - that's British understatement - met a B2 bomber coming the other way. Well, no, he wasn't taxying up London Road. Just flying up along that route at a surprisingly low altitude. Seemed to be just above the rooftops.

    That's the only time I've seen a flying wing aircraft and seeing that picture of the YB49 kind of brought it back.

    I should mention that where I was on London Road is about five miles from Farnborough airbase, next day was the start of the Farnborough airshow, and that year the B2 made an unannounced appearance. The show is perhaps the world's premier international show for military aircraft.
     
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