1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Hey Facebook people... We've created a group for XS650.com members to connect. Check it out!
    Dismiss Notice

Leaks and stuck RPM (high) even with clutch in. 83' xs650 Heritage Special

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MarieKaramazov, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Addict

    143
    176
    43
    Sweden

    At the picture one at the bottom can se the hole after the alternator cover is removed.
    There then are a edge one can pull at
    A rubber mallet or wood plank hitting carefully a little at the outside should get it moving
     
    Raymond likes this.
  2. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    You'll want to get yourself a 1 to 1.5 lb. rubber mallet. Very useful for hitting things on the bike you need to but don't want to damage. HF has some cheap ones that will do the trick .....

    https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hammers-pry-bars/mallets.html

    There are two locating dowels for this cover. They are just plain steel so they can and will rust up, making cover removal difficult. Coat them and the corresponding holes they fit into with that anti-seize compound I mentioned a few posts above to prevent this.

    [​IMG]
     
    lakeview, MarieKaramazov and Raymond like this.
  3. MarieKaramazov

    MarieKaramazov XS650 Enthusiast

    Well, I got the screws out again, but no luck on actually getting the cover off; it defeated me. Used wd40 on the seams, rubber mallet, didn't have any triangular or thin wood around, so went with light taps on Phillips in spots that would give. Only got cracks of give but it won't budge even pulling on the side over chain. The left side in particular doesn't even want to give me a crack, can't even get a Phillips in there.

    Unless I'm missing a step beyond removing those screws, I'm not sure what else to do except try cleaning the area and the undercarriage with the mineral spirits as planned (I was just going to do it after taking a look inside as is), hoping maybe I don't know it will get into seams and loosen something up in case it's 37 years of crud and they're fused. Perhaps there's something else I can put on the seam?

    Side note, I went to check the front brakes, but when I looked through the little caliper hole for the red wear line and to see pads (as indicated in manual), I can't make out a thing in there. I don't see any wear indicator and at all, and couldn't even spot the pads; just a silver piece in the center. Am I missing something? Perhaps it's simply too dirty and I should just remove caliper and look inside; just not trying to mess that up but you got to start somewhere I suppose! Surely do for a cleaning anyhow. Just need to get it (safely) rideable asap too!

    (Tires should be on Saturday and starting build/rebuild thread soon)
     

    Attached Files:

    Greyandridin and Jim like this.
  4. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    You have to remove the shifter to get the cover off... and the footpeg. If it's really stuck, pull the cover with 2 screws (the alternator cover). Then you can wedge a piece of wood 'tween the cover and stator to free a stubborn cover.... but first things first, pull the footpeg and shifter.
     
  5. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    ... and don't wedge steel tools in there. You'll do more damage than good. Always use something softer than what you're prying against. For aluminum, plastic and wood only.
     
    lakeview, Greyandridin and Raymond like this.
  6. MarieKaramazov

    MarieKaramazov XS650 Enthusiast

    :redface: I assumed that originally, wondered same about clutch cable but saw that was attached inside and didn't see anything in manual or youtube about shifter so figured I was being a ding dong and that that was attached as well. Now I am a ding dong. I'll listen to my instincts more next time. Yes the peg at least I figured I'd have to move once it released, just couldn't even get it to release. Well at least that's an easy fix. Thanks @Jim (heard on the tools, impatience defeated me.)
     
    Greyandridin, Raymond and Jim like this.
  7. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    No worries... it's a temptation that's hard to resist. Lesson learned and move on.
    You're not a ding dong, you're learning. You'll get there. :D
     
    Greyandridin and Raymond like this.
  8. MarieKaramazov

    MarieKaramazov XS650 Enthusiast

    Haha, thanks, Jim. (And next time I won't give the manual the final word against my common sense or including everything.) I'm excited I'm going to get in there now at least!
     
    Greyandridin and Jim like this.
  9. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    At the bottom center of your 1st pic, that's one of the locating dowels. Soak that area with penetrating oil and it should help.

    Yes, those little view ports for checking the brake pads are pretty useless. It gets so dirty in there, you really can't see anything. It's easier just to look underneath the caliper at the pads.
     
  10. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Or pull the caliper off and get a proper look.
     
  11. MarieKaramazov

    MarieKaramazov XS650 Enthusiast

    Got the cover off and as you can see from the pics there’s plenty of buildup and crud! Wasn’t able to get the clutch cable disconnected From the cover yet as I could hardly see how was best with all the crud; looks like there’s a tiny screw on back but doesn’t look like easy access...
    Anywho, just figured I’d provide pics . Next step is I plan on spraying that whole area (Minus Just the generator) with mineral spirits—after which I imagine I should rinse with soapy water because of flammability of spirits and dry off to prevent rust? I’ll also do the same underneath by oil drain plugs. Then I’ll run it and I should be able to actually see where the leak is coming from, and change the oil after :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Raymond, gggGary and Jim like this.
  12. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Progress! thumbsup.gif
    There's a small tab that you need to bend out of the way as required (red arrow). Don't bend it any more than you have to. Might also have to turn the adjuster in on the perch to get more slack in the cable. Then you can push the clutch cable down slightly and slide it free. Keep an eye on that ball (green arrow), they been known to fall out.

    Untitled.png
     
  13. gggGary

    gggGary I'm listening, change my mind XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    You can see a ^ of clean metal with the tip pointed at the push rod seal that'll prolly be your biggest leak.
    LH cove pushrod seal.jpeg
     
  14. lakeview

    lakeview XS650 Guru XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Unless you are working in your living room, in my view there is no need to rinse off the varsol with soupy water. By the time you brush and rub and wipe off the dirt with a rag, the varsol will be expended. You will probably apply the varsol several times.
     
  15. Raymond

    Raymond XS650 rider, fettler, setting out on a journey XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    That's not an exceptional amount of grease and crud. When you pull the cover off the sprocket area on any bike, there's always a build up of grease and road dirt off the chain - at least, there should be. But I think gggGary's right and there might be oil coming from the clutch push rod as well.

    Do you have a jar of Swarfega? Or they might have something similar under a different moniker in the US?
     
    Greyandridin and gggGary like this.
  16. kopcicle

    kopcicle antidisestablishmentarian

    Yes , we in the colonies do have some idea of hand cleaners. Go-Jo, the "Zep" products, and embedding a film of mink oil (yes the water repellent white paste you rub into your boots. Wait , what, you didn't know ? ) into the pores of your hands prior to diving into a chain case or diesel mess.
    Then of course the rubber , nitrile , latex gloves got cheap.

    Having access to shop air (150 PSI.) I soak the area in mineral spirits, Bottom cut from the pot still, warm isopropyl , or worse* then cover in a near dead anyway rag or towel and sneak an air nozzle under the towel and blast it all, catching "most" of it in the towel.

    *worse., ahem , disclaimer follows. There are occasionally some deposits that are in effect welded on. Fortunately you won't usually find them around the countershaft area but ...
    One, this product can not be used bare handed.
    Two, any of these products can and will alter the appearance of your pretty aluminum surfaces.
    Three, use good quality thick gloves.
    Four, use eye protection.
    Five , don't get it in your coffee or beer...Last serious hot water rinse and at least a coat of lubricant is required on ferrous parts to prevent immediate rust.
    https://www.easyoff.us/products/easy-offreg-heavy-duty-oven-cleaner/

    YMMV

    http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-adventures-in-clutch.24483/
     
    gggGary likes this.
  17. MarieKaramazov

    MarieKaramazov XS650 Enthusiast

    Okay! Sorry for delay. I was having some starting trouble so after cleaning I wasn't able to run it to chase the leak; solved that, well, for now--separate post on that one forthcoming.
    One leak source is certain: clutch pushrod seal. (This pic was just after running it for a short time; I then rode it a bit and seems longer it runs, more oil leaks)
    IMG_1454.jpeg
    There's a good bit of oil on that acorn nut to the right of it, more the longer I run it, but it's hard to say whether that's leaking or if it's just the pushrod seal leaking onto it.

    Also getting oil here, but it seems again like that's just running down from the pushrod seal leak. Again, the amount in this whole area increases quite a bit the longer I run/ride it, including covering that plastic spring looking cover.
    IMG_1451.jpeg

    Also, below, after running it longer, I'm getting a bit of weeping from the right acorn nut (sorry it's upside down, can't quite see the weep here well)
    IMG_1452.jpeg

    So, going to buy a new pushrod seal. Just kidding, I see it's out of stock there, will have to find elsewhere. Anyway, I've taken a moment to scan a few things about it, and it sounds like it's a bit of delicate thing to replace and it's originally placed when the cases are split. I'm going to buy 2 in case I bugger it up. Okay maybe 3. Any links to good videos/resources or anything else on doing that is appreciated, though I still have to delve into specifics on it myself. Figure I start by fixing that and if I"m wrong that the other leak locations aren't just runoff, I'll be able to figure that then.

    As for the acorn nuts up front, that just a retorquing situation? New washers?

    OH, and @Jim , looks like while I originally managed to keep that ball you noted in place, when I went back in another time after cleaning, it looks like it's no longer there--well it seems there's something in the hole when I feel in there with a Phillips but it's not raised/rounded and on top like in the pic on post #71. Current:
    IMG_1429.jpeg
    So looks like I need to get a new one of those... Or on second thought perhaps I had the arm rotated out so that the ball sunk deeper; I'll look again. I believe that's what the pushrod depresses

    Per the hanging idle, the last few times I've ridden it, it's only happened maybe once--but they've been short rides due to the leak and electric. So until that and the battery/charging is solved, I feel like I won't be able to diagnose that completely.

    Side note, saw that this is bent (see arrow as I don't know what the washer like thing is called)...
    IMG_1428.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    Raymond likes this.
  18. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    20,023
    11,922
    813
    You may have your work cut out for you changing that seal. It looks like someone JB Welded it in there, lol. Hopefully not though. Maybe that's just Yamabond gasket sealer smeared all over it.

    I think you still have the ball in your worm gear. Yes, it gets pushed farther in like that when the pushrod fits into it. Put a wad of grease on it, both to help retain it in the worm and to keep it lubed.
     
    MarieKaramazov and Raymond like this.
  19. Jim

    Jim Beyond the edge is the unknown. Here be Dragons XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    It's commonly called a lock tab washer. Bending it against the nut locks the nut in place.
    I'd try a retorque first. Maybe remove the nut and washer (1 at a time), clean everything up and torque it.
    As far as the pushrod seal, once you get it removed, check and see how worn the bushing is. Most likely will need to change that also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 10:54 AM
    MarieKaramazov, Raymond and GLJ like this.
  20. Jan_P

    Jan_P XS650 Addict

    143
    176
    43
    Sweden
    Thinking out loud
    It looks as something is smeared on the Outside of the pushrod seal
    Not a good sign . In worst case there can be a crack or other damage.
    Epoxy I believe you call it JB Weld is used for leaks after fex chain breakage
    I have not heard of someone using it as " just in case "
    By the earlier pictures with oil under the bike it appeared as a bigger leak than I would suspect off the pushrod seal
    Just guessing. Can be Wrong
    The leak at the nut I would be surprised if a retorque is not a solution. ( right torque according to spec )
    Loosening a single nut only are sometimes on modern bikes not advisable. There exist a tightening pattern but also a loosening pattern.
    Things can get warped if done wrong at the wrong part .I don't believe it is a risk here.
    But better try the Retorque.
    No known mileage but tires was old perhaps never changed .. Then a worn bushing for the Pushrod is less likely.
    If this was me and not being certain it is the Pushrod seal I would try to inspect behind the Sprocket
    And / Or Retighten that one first before changing any seals.
     
    MarieKaramazov and Greyandridin like this.

Share This Page