Long Term Test of Seal-All for Carb Floats - Update

[YamadudeXS650C]

Update:

Back in the second week of April of this year, I found that the brass float in my 1974 Kawasaki F11 had once again taken on gas, despite a soldering repair seeming to be successful last spring. As you know, these floats are delicate, so the soldering repair needs to be very carefully accomplished.

However, applying some sort of sealer would perhaps be easier and less likely to damage the float.

I found two posts at other websites of guys who said that Seal-all worked for them, but their tests lacked specificity and long term follow-up.

So I called Tech at Eclectic Products, the maker, and asked about their research base regarding their claim:
"What are some suggested uses for Seal-All?
Use for distributor caps, interior panels, radiators, gaskets, transmission, carburetor floats, body and trunk leaks, battery cables and terminals, generators, tools and much more."

The tech operator was straight with me; "Sir, our research dept. is very busy, and they haven't actually substantiated that Seal-all will work long term on carb floats. However, if you want to test it yourself, I would be pleased if you get back to me with what you find."

So, I brushed one layer of Seal-all onto my float after cleaning and scuffing with ScotchBrite pad,

and did the same to a section of brass tubing,

and then cut the coated piece off, and placed in gasoline.

Now, 6 months later, the Seal-all seems to have maintained its integrity and has not become brittle. And my F11 shows no signs of float issues.

It is going back into the gas bath.

I hope this is helpful to someone.

 

[Mailman]

Well that was very interesting reading, I’d never heard of that product. I’ll have to remember that for future reference.
Thanks Dude!

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Thank you, MM.
My favorite Eclectic product is Shoe Goo, which I use regularly.

 

[MaxPete]

OK - Seal-All it is!

....if required.

Thanks Dude!

 

[XSLeo]

I've used Seal All for years. Never thought to try it on carb floats. Have Patched holes in gas tanks as large as 1/4 inch. Place blob of Seal all on a match book cover and place over leak, Hold till set. Not pretty but works till you can do a pretty job.
Last time I did that was about 74 75. Hit something on a Snowmobile and punched a 1/4 hole in fuel tank. Tipped the sled up on side to slow fuel running out, wiped as clean as I could and did the match book trick. Held well enough I almost didn't do a better repair once I got home. Once home I flushed tank and ground the Seal All off to clean bare metal. Brazed a patch over the hole a bit of sanding and paint. Good as new.
Leo

 

[DogBunny]

So, I tried Seal-All on my floats. It is working, but I have reservations.

I have a LOT of bad floats. I took a few of them, and really slathered the Seal-All on. My thinking was that I would not only seal the hole, but also reinforce the brass, preventing future holes. Seal-All is basically a contact cement, and if you have ever tried to brush-on contact cement, then you know why my slathering looks so messy and un-even.
I let the repair cure for the recommended time of 6 hours for full cure. I then subjected the floats to gggGary's test: submerge the floats in hot water. I use my hottest tap water in an extra-deep bucket, and I let it sit overnight when I do this test.
Well, as you can see from the pic above, after soaking in water, the cured Seal-All changed from clear to milky-white! That was disturbing. After several hours in the Texas sun, the cloudiness cleared, and the Seal-All went back to clear.

Two of my floats failed the test, simply because I missed holes -- they can be EXTREMELY hard to see. The rotted float above was by far the worst. While inspecting the failure, I found that I could pretty easily peel the Seal-All repair off in one piece.
I would feel a lot better about Seal-All if it adhered better. I prepped the floats by cleaning with a rotating steel wire wheel on a bench grinder. I thought that would leave a nicely toothed surface, but maybe it polished instead? I briefly considered etching the brass with acid, but realized that would just risk making more holes and rot.

So, I am now running with one of the repaired floats that passed the submersion test. I do not have total confidence in the repair, but that's okay. I don't mind having to re-do the repair, as long as I get at least a couple years out of it. In my experience, a sunken float will not strand you.

One more thing, and this has been noted by others: it can be EXTREMELY hard to find small holes and cracks. I have had floats with gas in them, or with water in them from the submersion test, and you can shake them forever and the hole or crack will never reveal itself. I think the old gas varnishes over the hole, sealing it. To get the fluid out you have to find the original hole or crack, and then drill a hole in it to enlarge it. Then shake as much out as you can, and put it in the sun. If you are impatient, you can drill a second hole, and you can then use compressed air to dry the inside out.

I wanted to show off my pin vices that I use to drill really small holes (above pic). A pin vice is a hand drill for very small bits. My pin vices date back to when I was bout 13 (I'm 60 now), and I built a wooden clipper ship model. I still have all of the specialty tools that I bought for that project, but the pin vices get the most use.
The one on top is by Central Hardware Manufacturing Co., and you can buy similar ones today. It has four different-size collets.
The one on the bottom is by X-Acto, and is obsolete. It has two collets, and will hold extremely small bits.

One final old story while I am rambling: So, as I was told, the Germans were proud of how small they could make drill bits. They sent a few of their finest tiny bits to the Japanese to show off how small they were. The Japanese then sent them back. The Germans looked at them under a microscope, and discovered that the Japanese had drilled holes in them.

 

[MaxPete]

Cool post DogBunny! Also, I agree - a pin vise is a very handy little tool. I use them all the time on my RC model planes.

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

but maybe it polished instead?

I concur with your hunch. Perhaps too smooth a surface for successful adhesion.

The float in my Kaw F11 is still sealed 13 months later, and the experimental item left soaking in gas is also intact.

I am wondering if your hot water test weakened the Seal-All.

So, as I was told, the Germans were proud of how small they could make drill bits. They sent a few of their finest tiny bits to the Japanese to show off how small they were. The Japanese then sent them back. The Germans looked at them under a microscope, and discovered that the Japanese had drilled holes in them.

now, that is an entertaining story, DogBunny !

 

[MaxPete]

Well....it’s a better story and caused much less harm than the last time the German and the Japanese worked together.

.....

 

[xjwmx]

Seal-all is the best gas- resistant glue I know of, but it's not magic. And it does "seal all" -- I used it with a scrap of inner tube to fix a leaking birdbath.

 

[xjwmx]

Here are a couple of other possibilities that claim to be gas resistant, intended to be fillers.
https://www.permatex.com/products/a...ialty-adhesives/permatex-liquid-metal-filler/
https://paulshotrodandmusclecarparts.com/products/per-25906-permatex-liquid-solder

There's also regular old solder, use the old formula that will actually melt, and a medium iron, or a micro torch. If you sand around the hole solder should flow really well. Clean up mistakes with solder braid.

 

[gggGary]

Any float soldering involves reopening the vent hole first, then solder and lastly reseal the vent hole quickly adding little heat. Ask me why I know this.

 

[xjwmx]

Is it possible to adapt bs34 solid plastic floats to bs 38?

 

[gggGary]

no, different size, shape float bowls. But knock yourself out proving me wrong XJ.

 

[xjwmx]

Ok, I will. Anything is possible with enough time and money

 

[DogBunny]

I concur with your hunch. Perhaps too smooth a surface for successful adhesion.
I am wondering if your hot water test weakened the Seal-All.

Here are a couple of other possibilities that claim to be gas resistant, intended to be fillers.
https://www.permatex.com/products/a...ialty-adhesives/permatex-liquid-metal-filler/
https://paulshotrodandmusclecarparts.com/products/per-25906-permatex-liquid-solder
There's also regular old solder, use the old formula that will actually melt, and a medium iron, or a micro torch. If you sand around the hole solder should flow really well. Clean up mistakes with solder braid.

Those Permatex products look promising, but I bet they are just yet another contact adhesive, probably with added metal. I'm going to stick with the Seal-All for know. And I'm going to sand the floats next time. Read too many failure stories regarding re-soldering, and the Seal-All seems easier and faster.

Well....it’s a better story and caused much less harm than the last time the German and the Japanese worked together.

Ha-ha.

 

[xjwmx]

Something else you could try on Swiss cheese floats would be 2k clear spray. It's fuel proof on my tank, and it ain't going to peel off. Don't breathe that spit.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Now youse guyz got me to thinkin'. Nitrophyl float material is available in 76mm long, 30.5mm diameter rods. Cuttable, machinable, closed cell. Carve some 16mm wide discs, and glue them (with Seal-All or Loctite 380?) in my float fixture...?

 

[bikefreak69]

These are all really good ideas to repair nasty brass floats.I tried Damon's tank sealer on some that were literally full of pinholes and while it sealed the holes it made the floats heavy.Perhaps brush it on instead of dipping floats in sealer like I did.

 

[xjwmx]

glue them (with Seal-All or Loctite 380?)

If you stuck a hot brad into the nitrophyl, would it melt it and then stick when it cooled?