Long time reader, new member, having an issue with my clutch (1972 XS2)

[yerbluez]

HI all,

I am a long time reader, a new member and first time poster. I've owned a 1972 XS 650 for about 3 years. It's an awesome bike, I really love the looks and feel to it. It's pretty much stock, an old survivor in a way. Haven't really had to do much to it in the last 3 years except change the oil and tires.

Anyhow I've finally gotten around to two things, the removal and lubing of clutch cable (which had been working fine) and addressing a leak in the left hand engine cover. I've been reading over these forums quite a bit over the last two weeks, it has been a great resource. But nevertheless, after reading so much I cannot figure out what to do now.

Here is my situation. I replaced the clutch pushrod seal that was leaking, and replaced it as suggested through many of the older posts on this forum. I installed the long push rod off mikes xs, with the two ball bearings still in position as far as I can tell. I lubed and replaced the clutch cable, worm drive etc, and put everything back together. Now the problem I am having, is that no matter how I adjust the the clutch at the lever or at the engine case, the lever is still very difficult to pull, and will no longer allow me to actually control how the clutch engages. In other words, I can pull the clutch lever in, put it in 1st, or 2nd or whatever, and without letting the lever back out at all, the bike goes into gear. I can still find neutral (with difficulty), but basically it seems I have messed up the actual function of the clutch cable and lever. It shifted fine before I did this work, I had only removed it because it needed to be lubed as it was already kind of stiff.

Any ideas?? i've been wracking my brains over this and it's getting irritating as I was hoping my first major project on the bike would make it function better, not worse... Alas, it's an old bike and I have lot to learn.

Thanks in advance, and happy July 4th to you all.

P.S. - here are some shots of the bike for your viewing pleasure.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Welcome to the forum, yerbluez. Really nice XS2 there.

I guess we could first look at 2 rookie mistakes.

First is installing the 1-piece pushrod backwards. The narrowed down section fits onto the clutch actuator (worm drive).

Second is having the worm drive improperly installed in the nylon body, where its fully seated position has its lever arm 'clocked' in the wrong direction.

You could pull the left engine cover, leave the cable connected, flip it over, take and post a pic of how it looks in there.

The forum's tech section has a lot of info on the XS650 clutch and adjustments...

 

[yerbluez]

Thanks for the reply TwoMany. I will try and get a picture posted today after work. I do know that the push rod is installed the correct way. I did not remove the worm drive/clutch actuator when I took off the side cover, but maybe it was already installed wrong by the previous owner. Either way I'll take some photos and hopefully that will help clear it up.

I've read through a lot of the clutch posts/ tech section but can't seem to find this particular problem...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Problems with the clutch actuation and hard-to-pull are rather common here. Usually solved with thorough cleaning/lubing, replacing worn/broken parts, and proper assembly. Finding your specific problem, when it was good before, and not now, may be tricky, or embarrassingly simple. A complete understanding of how the thing works, and the pitfalls, would help.

These threads are excruciatingly long, but may help give you the understanding:

Clutch worm actuator experiment and tidbits
Clutch cable experiment and tidbits

 

[5twins]

Even a new cable needs to be lubed before installing. Many come from the manufacturer practically dry inside. I encountered the same problem as you when I replaced my original clutch cable. The new one pulled harder than the beat up old one. I oiled it and it was then fine. Speaking of cable lubes, that fancy spray stuff isn't very good. It only lasts a couple days then it's gone. Plain motor oil works better. It takes longer to dribble it down through the cable but it works much better.

 

[yerbluez]

Thanks for your input 5Twins. I actually ended up reusing the old cable which I lubed with motor oil per suggestions on this forum. I may do it again just to be sure. I do have a MotionPro cable I ordered, so I might just switch that out if nothing else works. I've heard they are better.

Gonna try and get around to taking a picture of the clutch actuator position with the case off tonight and look into the routing of the cable to make sure neither are causing an issue.

Any other thoughts or advice would be very welcome! Hope to get her back on the road this weekend

 

[yerbluez]

I'll go through those articles as well TwoMany, thanks for the links

 

[weekendrider]

You may find it to bind less with different routing.

 

[yerbluez]

Okay so I took some photos of everything under my left hand side cover , let me know what you all think of how the worm drive is positioned with the cable attached. Also the ball bearing is inside the worm , it's just hard to see. I regreased it and now it kind of stays back there.

Also have a new seal for the clutch push rod, chamfered the edges as best I could without a Dremel.




Thanks

 

[peanut]

looks to me like you have your clutch worm arm in the wrong starting position. if you look at your spring it has already extended and the arm is past the mid way point so you have little pull left.
If you line your cover up so that it is in its normal horizontal fitted plane then place the worm arm onto the worm body in the 3'oclock position it should end up exactly where it needs to be at 7 oclock

 

[5twins]

Your install may be correct but we can't know for sure unless you detach the cable and allow the lever portion of the worm to fully seat into the case portion, like in Peanut's 1st pic. The slightly less than 90° angle between your cable and the cable arm is due to your adjustments, not the worm gear assembly.

When you adjust clutch cable freeplay out using the adjuster up at the hand lever, it shortens the inner cable length in relation to the outer sheath. This lifts the cable down in the case, lifting and changing the angle on the worm arm as well. This is why it is recommended to do the majority of your adjusting with the screw on the worm gear. That doesn't change the cable arm angle.

You will have a harder clutch pull compared to the newer models no matter what you do because you have one of the early short arm worms. It gives slightly more pushrod travel but at the expense of a harder lever pull.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Ditto on what the guyz are saying here. In addition, with the worm too far advanced like that, there's the risk of the worm's sealcup contacting the crankcase bulge, putting a stop to any more travel. Have a look at this post:

XS650 Clutch Worm Actuator experiment & tidbits, post #152

 

[yerbluez]

Okay sorry for the delay, finally have a day to look at it and these latest responses should help. Since the cover is off still I'll try removing the cable and fooling around with the position. My only problem before was that because the clutch cable has only a limited amount of reach, that sort of determined where the position would be of the worm drive when I put the cover back on.

When replacing a clutch cable would you suggest attaching it to the lever first and then at the case? Or the opposite? Might go ahead and put on the motion pro cable while I'm at it again.

Thanks for the help! Hopefully figure it out today

 

[yerbluez]

I took the cable out and with the spring still attached this is what the position looks like. I really don't know how to replicate your photo peanut without removing the spring?

 

[peanut]

that looks correct however your spring looks completely knackered .It needs replacing because it has been overstretched. In fact it doesn't even look like the correct spring but it may be correct for the earlier models.

You need to follow the clutch setting guide in the manual .it doesn't matter which end of the cable is fitted first because when everything is installed correctly you should be starting with plenty of slack in the cable at the clutch lever.

Check you have the correct number of ball bearings and that the thin end of the clutch push rod is at the worm end. make sure the ball bearing is in the worm drive and check your worm arm moves freely by hand before refitting the cover.
Your worm adjuster bolt should be fully wound out and your lever adjust nut fully wound in before you start. If the cable is still not slack or you have too much slack then there is something wrong somewhere. You may have an extra ball bearing or the wrong clutch cable or your clutch lever adjustment is incorrectly set

Adjust your adjusting bolt in until you feel resistance then back it out 1/4 turn. Tighten the locknut. Then adjust your free play at the lever so that there is always a slight slackness in the cable when you pull the lever

 

[yerbluez]

Thanks I'll go through all of this again. As for the spring, is that something you can likely find at any hardware store or should I go through Mikes?

I'm gonna try out my motion pro cable today, does anyone know the correct aprox length of the wire for a 72? I do not have the stock handlebars, I imagine that would change things.

 

[peanut]

try with your existing cable first before buying another. Once it is adjusted and fittted correctly you'll have a silky smooth one finger clutch pull just like mine is.
As for the spring you'll need to go to Mikexs or Boats or ebay etc
Why don't you dry fit your cover and adjust and test it first in case you have other issues and take it from there

 

[5twins]

There were two clutch cable lengths used on the 650s. The Special models with their high buckhorn bars got one a couple inches longer than the Standard. I believe the Motion Pro cable is the longer type. no matter, it will still work fine. You appear to have lower than stock bars. Low bars require some slight cable re-routing. Originally, the clutch cable was routed down along the left side of the steering neck, throttle cable(s) along the right side. With low bars, you'll want to flip-flop them, sending throttle down the left side, clutch down the right .....

Another little mod you can do to ease cable pull is to slightly straighten the elbow on the bottom of the cable. Don't make it totally straight, just about half as bent as it was .....

You can do this by clamping the elbow in a vice and slowly tightening it. Let the top of the elbow hang out or you'll crimp it shut .....

 

[yerbluez]

Thanks for those routing instructions, your handlebars look just like mine. I just installed the motion pro cable it seems to work okay, until I put the cover back on and then it's stiff as ever.

I think something is wrong with the actuator- I feel like it is not extending enough once I have the case back on. Additionally when I dry fit the case without the bolts in, when I pull the clutch lever the case wants to lift off the engine. Is this normal?

Take a look at this video I just took, this is with everything hooked up and adjusted . To me it seems like pulling the clutch cable isn't working the drive properly.

Thanks for following up

 

[yerbluez]

Right now I don't feel that the resistance on the cable is the issue, I think it's the lack of pull on the worm drive once the case is on. I just don't know how to fix this. If that is indeed the problem