Looking for opinions....

[Sir Real Ed]

Thru a combination of good luck and/or poor judgement, I recently acquired two XS 650 rolling chassis. A 1976 and a 1977. Nothing more than frames, engines, wheels, suspensions, gas tanks, and handle bars. It would cost to much to make them into pristine bikes, so I am looking for fun tinkering with the eventual goal of a reliable bike.

Suggestions as to ignition systems, carbs, simplified wiring diagrams, seats, etc would be much appreciated.

In other words, now that you have been down the XS650 Highway a ways, what would you do if you were in my shoes?

thanks in advance

 

[Jim]

If you have all the pieces to put one (or both) together and make it (them) run... do that first. Having a runner is a nice distraction on a warm summer day when you feel like taking a hammer to sumpin'. Ride one and enjoy it while you do your thing on the second.

 

[Muckroot]

Excellent suggestion from Jim. And if one of the two frames is pretty beat up you might consider hard tailing one of the bikes and returning the other to stock. the stock bike you can ride around during the summer and scrounge for parts from wrecker yards in the winter, and the hard tail you can buy new parts for and really cherry out. then you get the best of both worlds, referbing old parts and making a stock bike and building a custom bike from new parts. seems like the best way to go to me!

 

[member28833]

Sir Real Ed, Congratulations on your acquiring of Two XS's at once! Score Working on two at a time does have advantages as well. As you dig into em heading in deep like to the swingarm pivots and engine oil sump screens and carburetors and such you will find each to be very similar to each other. 76 & 77 are both excellent Standards to "RestoMod" .. Yes, that's a way to say "Can't make it original so I made it a little cooler" Those two years will share many parts but you will find the differences. You can high grade the best parts over to your long term favorite and attempt to get a rider up and running first?
I Hope that you have a descent work area or garage and the desire to commit many hours too. Start watching local sources for parts to scrounge because once you get the XS bug, which it looks like you did, you are going to need more parts too ! Lol
Keep us posted because this looks Fun ! Pics please !
-R

Here is my 5th XS into this bad habit as it sits today..

 

[Sir Real Ed]

Thanks guys. Sound advice so far, which I appreciate. I will hopefully get some pics up soon. There should be more parts coming from both previous owners for reasons too long to type.

This bike(s?) will primarily be a "Tinkering Bike" as opposed to a "Riding Bike" for a while. As you all no doubt know, those are the two main types of bikes in the world.

I bought a 1976 XS650C leftover dealer demo bike in the spring of 1977. As a upgrade to my 1972 Yamaha R5-C. One of my older brother's friend bought the brand new Kawasaki 650 four, and teased me a lot about the XS being slow. After looking thru Cycle magazines acceleration charts for both bikes, I noticed that while the Kaw was much faster at the end of the 1/4 mile, it did not overtake the XS until about 80 mph.

So one day I said "Lets run one!" He replied, "How will we know when we hit the 1/4 mile?" I said "Well why don't we both just shut down at about 80 mph?" Never heard another bad word from him about the XS. Great bike, then my damn older brother bought a new Yamaha XS750 Special when they came out in 78 or 79.......

What I am looking for are words of wisdom/experience on components. Wiring harnesses, mufflers, switch gear, head lights, tail lights, electrical components, etc. I previously owned a 1992 Kawasaki EX500, so buying used EX carbs makes a lot more sense to me than trying to save the old BS38's that I have. Pretty sure the diaphragms are petrified. Kinda leaning towards stock air boxes, but pod filters are probably more economical. Stock air boxes may or may not come after I am sure that at least one of the motors is sound.

So the goal is to get components that can first be used to get the "Tinkering Bike" motors running, then later used as part of the "Riding Bike." I already have a Suzuki DR 650, Beta EVO 250, and KTM Duke 690 as my Riding Bikes

So lets hear your recommendations. PMA? Electronic ignition? Carb jetting? Head pipes and mufflers?

thanks in advance!

 

[Sir Real Ed]

The 1976 bike!

 

[gggGary]

That looks like a good start! what kind of bike are you thinking of heading for?
Resto, bobber, tracker, cafe, brat, chopper?

Budget?

 

[Sir Real Ed]

one that has enough parts to actually run would be a good start...... after that, all bets are off!

budgets? tracking money spent takes the fun out of these projects!

we don't need no stinkin budgets!!!!!

 

[gggGary]

That's the attitude! But recommendations are heavily finance related.
Start with a lot of reading here a fairly comprehensive what you need to know thread.
Most will replace ignition points with something more modern/stable.
Probably the best ignition/charging package out there right now is Vape.
disclaimer; I got a reduced price from hoos on a Vape to do a still in progress how to thread.
For the budget minded the tytronics "points replacer" seems to be a decent solution but installs are still a fairly low number.. Many swear by the Boyer Bransden ignitions. They've been around for years. If you got a pamco with your parts, though out of business, they are good to use too.
MikesXS and HHB both offer systems, other resellers carry those also.
Your Ninja carbs have a lot of installed base with jetting suggestions to work from, beware the brass needed to use those will drive up the cost.
After that the usual wake up drill, consumables replacements will typically tie up month or so of shop time.
Scrimping using care a G or so will get you on the road, get fancy and 4 or 5G disappears pretty quickly.

 

[Sir Real Ed]

Agreed. Good advice. This is probably bike number 50+ something for me. Including a few frame up rebuilds. Not interested in concours. Just a tinkering project for now. Just not interested in traveling down bad roads. So any products and vendors to be avoided are appreciated.

 

[member28833]

This is probably bike number 50+ something for me. Not interested in concours. Just a tinkering project for now. Just not interested in threading down bad roads. So any products and vendors to be avoided are appreciated.

Nice to hear of the accumulated experience and outcome intended. Obviously before too many aftermarket suggestions are acted on you need to evaluate your own carbs, the floats and the diaphrams for sure and try to use only genuine Mikuni jets and such. Those BS38's are real fun to play with and can work well.
Mufflers themselves are an ongoing hunt of opinions as there are not many that look right or work right.
Electrically ? Again many opinions and I continue stay in the "mostly original" crowd. You definitely need to clean and lube the mechanical timing advance rod which passes thru the head. Again, discussing this is near "pointless" until you dig in.

If you write up a thread to follow and post pics you will likely get more suggestions and ideas than you ever imagined. Face it we are home in quarenteen practically Lol..
Keep it coming
-R

 

[Sir Real Ed]

the 77 beast. some parts not shown, rear fender and taillight, front brake system, two sets of after market head pipes, one down swept, one flat tracker along side cylinders...

 

[member28833]

Vision 18" front wheel ? Sweet !

 

[2XSive]

That 77 looks like it has an xs1100 front end/forks/triples and headlight with dual discs.

 

[5twins]

The '76 and '77 models are very similar, major difference being the front brake and whole front end was changed on the '77. The carb sets were the same and as far as the BS38s go, they're good ones. They were the first set to be linked together as a "bank" and use one throttle cable. If you have two sets hopefully you can assembly one good set out of them.

Stay away from the PMA cesspool. The stock charging system is perfectly fine and can be "updated" with a low cost regulator from the auto world and a rectifier from the electronics world.

 

[thuban]

"PMA cesspool". 5 Twins, I'd like to hear your opinions on this. I am using the stock setup, including the mech regulator. I do have a complete Hugh's Handbilt system but never yet felt the need to install it. ( Don't want to instigate a big discussion ) I know folks use different systems and have good luck and others not so much.

 

[member28833]

It's very simple thuban and everybody. If you want to buy Chinese, keep it limited to this-

-RT , (American manufacturing life long employee)

 

[5twins]

Yes, that's a big part of it. PMAs come stock on many other motorcycles but have better quality components. The kits offered for the 650 are mostly full of cheap Chinese components. Yes, you can buy better quality replacement components but that'll cost you another $100 or so on top of the several hundred you've just spent.

But the other part of it is the PMA design itself. Once the RPMs rise, it pretty much runs full blast, putting out it's max charge. If the bike doesn't need all that, it is bled off in the form of heat through the regulator. This is tough on that component, even good O.E.M. factory ones, and the cheap Chinese ones that come with many of the kits fare even worse. Go to some GS Suzuki forums and you'll see what I mean. They came with factory PMAs and many are having charging system issues now. All that heat over all these years is burning out the components.

The stock 650 system is an automotive style 3 phase alternator. It's output is controlled by the regulator. It isn't running full blast all the time, only when need be. The old mechanical regulator used on the '79 and older systems is a bit crude and it's output is somewhat erratic. But you can replace it with a more modern automotive regulator for $20 to $30 and fix that. The crude open air rectifier can also be replaced with a more modern unit for about $10. Making those two changes will reduce the strain on the other "big ticket" components in the system (stator, rotor), and make the alternator's output more stable and consistent.

 

[member28833]

Very Good informative advice 5twins ! As usual

 

[thuban]

Thanks 5 Twins. I'm trouble shooting a small problem now. I'm not able to mess hands-on with the bike at the moment because of that damn bladder surgery but I feel better every day! Soon I'll look at the upgrading the reg and rectifier. You guys rock!